tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post1748519618431695859..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Confuses ItselfAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-37677816094204407852010-03-15T20:06:48.714-04:002010-03-15T20:06:48.714-04:00Joel: It's becoming extremely tiresome. Just...Joel: It's becoming extremely tiresome. Just remember the admonition DFTT. Eventually, when nobody responds to his ever-lengthening missives, he'll tire of the whole thing and go on to living another thirty or forty years in happy atheism. I wish him well.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-86802574304847341542010-03-15T19:52:24.041-04:002010-03-15T19:52:24.041-04:00LawHawk,
Sorry, I thought I was being clever. Oh,...LawHawk,<br /><br />Sorry, I thought I was being clever. Oh, well. I won't respond to another TROLL again.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89503206321931739302010-03-15T19:49:22.014-04:002010-03-15T19:49:22.014-04:00Joel:
By "Bush" I assume you meant Geor...Joel:<br /><br />By "Bush" I assume you meant George H.W. Bush, who said:<br /><br />"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."<br /><br />As for "atheism is just another wacky cult", I wonder how you consider that to be consistent with the fact that 93% of the members of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences are members of the same "wacky cult".<br /><br />Oh, and thanks anyway for the suggestion about how I could arrange to procreate, but you know, I've already done my part. I've been married, now, for more than 50 years and have five grandchildren.A. Zoroasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07473665017762017780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-38772220768463567702010-03-15T18:16:54.535-04:002010-03-15T18:16:54.535-04:00A to Z,
Strangely enough, none of these have been...A to Z,<br /><br />Strangely enough, none of these have been assasinated, nor targeted. If they had, it would have been blazoned across MSM with red fiery letters and blamed on Bush, Cheney and tea-partiers, not necessarily in that order.<br /><br />Atheism is just another wacky cult in the pantheon we call the human condition. Get over yourself. Find someone who likes your eyes and procreate. You are boring me to tears.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-66537040787881617702010-03-15T18:10:04.397-04:002010-03-15T18:10:04.397-04:00rlaWTX: It's not normally a matter of "...rlaWTX: It's not normally a matter of "not trusting someone = wanting them dead". Instead, it appears that religious extremists feel threatened by anyone who undermines their fairy tales. Illustrative is the following, copied from http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/filth-based-initiatives.html .<br /><br />Consider some of the vindictive e-mails that were sent to the Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation after one of their spokespeople, Anne Laurie Gaylor, appeared on CNN. These e-mails were reprinted in the January/February 2006 edition of the FFRF newsletter Freethought Today, which is where I draw them from (all spelling and grammar as in originals):<br /><br />"You make me vomit and sick and I pray to GOD that you go to hell."<br /><br />"Your a complete moron if you can't seem to understand the constitution of the United States that scum like you are trying to debase. All you liberal bitch's, along with the homosexual ACLU scum should be lined up against the wall."<br /><br />"Your closed-minded bigotry is so unrepentantly sub-human."<br /><br />"I bet you're a drunken whore."<br /><br />"You Ms. Gaylor, and people LIKE you are the scum of America. Ane if you are going to appear on any more talk shows, I would consider some plastic surgery and perhaps some dental work!"<br /><br />"People like you who interpret the bible wrong and try to sell this BS to people should be 'stoned to death'"<br /><br />Or consider the blog Molly Saves the Day, which in light of recent events in South Dakota posted an essay on how to set up an abortion clinic at home. Some of the comments sent to the author of that blog were stunning in the depth of their furious hatred and spiteful rage:<br /><br />"You are a fucking sicko. When you die, you will find yourself burning in the deepest depths of hell. Being Satan's chewing gum next to Hitler and Judas will be nice, won't it? And I'm no fucking conservative. The day a woman kills her baby with your procedure will be the day you are damned, you pagan bitch."<br /><br />Or Michael Newdow, the atheist who filed a constitutional complaint over religious language in the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance. The flood of hate mail and death threats against him was to be expected, of course; but more surprisingly, even some of the reporters who covered Newdow's story were targeted. Writes Bob Norman of the Palm Beach, Florida New Times, in his article "First Pledge":<br /><br />"...some extremist Christians... once again exposed their savage underbellies. They barraged Newdow with hundreds of death threats and hate mail. I know this not only because he shared many of them with the national media but because I received them too.<br /><br />"...A man who identified himself as Scott Sandlin wrote in the subject line of his e-mail: "YOU should be shot." I've written about mobsters, rogue cops, dirty politicians, and all manner of South Florida hustlers in the past, but I've never been threatened like this."<br /><br />Even Judge John E. Jones III, a Lutheran appointed by George W. Bush, is not immune from the religious right's bile. After a strong and incisive ruling against the Intelligent Design movement in the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District case, Judge Jones received so many hostile and threatening e-mails that the U.S. Marshals Service put him and his family under round-the-clock protection.A. Zoroasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07473665017762017780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-14409507117871807472010-03-15T17:23:57.329-04:002010-03-15T17:23:57.329-04:00rlaWTX: Better late than never, right? Apparentl...rlaWTX: Better late than never, right? Apparently, we have a better grasp of the obvious than some of our paranoid brethren. The First Amendment was designed to protect offensive speech. Otherwise, what's the point? Who's going to suppress speech that everybody agrees with? That simple concept has been whittled away for a very long time now, culminating in the noxious "hate speech statutes." <br /><br />Somehow, I can't believe that every time I launch a strong criticism of a fellow human being I am creating a whole subclass of assassins. There's a reason why words can be suppressed only in the case of "clear and present danger." Those words must occur at such a time, in such a place, and in such a way as to be extremely likely to produce an immediate unlawful action on the part of the hearers. Despite Zoroaster's fear, I just cannot fit what I said into the clear and present danger test. Apparently, paranoia strikes deep in the heartland.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-77840430360081339832010-03-15T16:53:36.642-04:002010-03-15T16:53:36.642-04:00just wondering: since when did not trusting someon...just wondering: since when did not trusting someone = wanting them dead?<br />I don't trust Dems (generally), but wanting them dead? Nah, I want 'em to pay their taxes...<br /><br />As for those 4 groups viewed to have a negative impact, - um - yeah - so what? <br /><br />(I know, late to the party - but I couldn't help myself...)rlaWTXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09319344164726195144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-49337888889581554292010-03-14T04:38:13.672-04:002010-03-14T04:38:13.672-04:00A. Zoroaster: Thank you for sharing. I may have to...A. Zoroaster: Thank you for sharing. I may have to consider that delete button. Your obvious hatred for me, our readers, and anybody with a differing opinion from yours is clearly endangering our lives. <br /><br />I've read Rheinhardt's dissent.<br />It isn't any more convincing that most of his lengthy opinions. <br /><br />We get your point. You and Newdow are members of an oppressed minority which is about to be wiped out in a massive roundup of atheists being conducted by radical religionists. Now take a big swig of Nyquil and go to bed. Enough, already.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-64470747666243076722010-03-14T03:17:26.133-04:002010-03-14T03:17:26.133-04:00Joel:
Recall that, at your blog, you wrote:
&quo...Joel:<br /><br />Recall that, at your blog, you wrote:<br /><br />"Red State Does not allow people who are not of the same Ideological bent to post. The only ones allowed are people who don't 'upset' the stodgy ones."<br /><br />Pot: meet kettle.A. Zoroasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07473665017762017780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-23381564992919202332010-03-14T01:19:37.189-05:002010-03-14T01:19:37.189-05:00A.Zoroaster,
Lighten up. I come here to understan...A.Zoroaster,<br /><br />Lighten up. I come here to understand. I don't come here for PC BULLXXXX. So far, all you have given is BS. LawHawk, where is that delete button?Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-13932637473643410302010-03-14T01:12:30.832-05:002010-03-14T01:12:30.832-05:00CalFederalist: Surely you see that your willingne...CalFederalist: Surely you see that your willingness to gamble on who gets more death threats in a day, the Pope or Newdow, is entirely beside the point. The important point is that the irresponsible post by LawHawkSF further endangers Newdow's life. If LawHawkSF were to be responsible, he would address the issues raised in Judge Reinhardt's minority opinion, e.g., see my blog at http://meansnends.blogspot.com/ .A. Zoroasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07473665017762017780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-54532329475907366982010-03-14T01:11:38.940-05:002010-03-14T01:11:38.940-05:00JTB: You ask "Despised atheists?" and a...JTB: You ask "Despised atheists?" and added: "Gimme a break that has never been what I have seen or heard from some of the most profoundly dedicated Christians I have met in over 70 years."<br /><br />The descriptor "despised atheists" is the result of a 2006 sociological study at the University of Minnesota. The following is from the University's News Service (see, e.g., http://www.concentric.net/~Worgar/atheists.htm ):<br /><br />"Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in "sharing their vision of American society." Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.<br /><br />"Even though atheists are few in number, not formally organized and relatively hard to publicly identify, they are seen as a threat to the American way of life by a large portion of the American public. "Atheists, who account for about 3 percent of the U.S. population, offer a glaring exception to the rule of increasing social tolerance over the last 30 years," says Penny Edgell, associate sociology professor and the study's lead researcher.<br /><br />"Edgell also argues that today's atheists play the role that Catholics, Jews and communists have played in the past—they offer a symbolic moral boundary to membership in American society. "It seems most Americans believe that diversity is fine, as long as every one shares a common `core' of values that make them trustworthy—and in America, that `core' has historically been religious," says Edgell. Many of the study's respondents associated atheism with an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism."<br /><br />In addition, there is the 1999 Gallup poll (e.g., see http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheistSurveys.htm ) that found the following percentages of people saying they would REFUSE to vote for "a generally well-qualified person for president" on the basis of the indicated characteristic:<br /><br />Catholic: 4% (1937: 30%)<br />Black: 5% (1958: 63%, 1987: 21%)<br />Jewish: 6% (1937: 47%)<br />Baptist: 6%<br />Woman: 8%<br />Mormon: 17%<br />Muslim: 38%<br />Gay: 37% (1978: 74%)<br />Atheist: 48%<br /><br />There is also the following (quoted from the same reference):<br /><br />"Finally, other studies and surveys indicate that prejudice against atheists is going back up. A March, 2007 survey done by Newsweek shows that 62% of people would refuse to vote for any candidate admitting to being an atheist. Republicans were, predictably, the most bigoted at 78%, followed by Democrats at 60% and independents at 45%."<br /><br />As for your "Christians if addressing atheism do so out of concern over their eternal soul never from the position of despising them", polling data do not support your assessment. Again from the same source (http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheistSurveys.htm):<br /><br />"A 1995 study done by Barna revealed that the prejudice and bigotry of born-again Christians towards atheists was almost universal, but still very high among non-Christians. Here are the numbers of born-again Christians who regard the impact of these groups as negative:<br /><br />Islam: 71%<br />Buddhism: 76%<br />Scientology: 81%<br />Atheism: 92% <br /><br />I provide additional data in my book at http://zenofzero.net .A. Zoroasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07473665017762017780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89354416530010048992010-03-13T15:35:30.572-05:002010-03-13T15:35:30.572-05:00CalFed: And as far as I know, nobody has actually...CalFed: And as far as I know, nobody has actually tried to carry out those threats against Newdow. Get into the public eye, and I guarantee you will start getting death threats. As for the Pope, unlike Newdow, many threats have been both real and palbable. And there have been attempts on the lives of both the current and prior Popes. But for Zoroaster, that's different. Only people who believe in the non-existence of God are entitled to hysterical sympathy.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-80738668089640044472010-03-13T15:26:33.003-05:002010-03-13T15:26:33.003-05:00LawHawk. I'm willing to bet the Pope gets mor...LawHawk. I'm willing to bet the Pope gets more death threats in a day than Newdow has gotten in his entire miserable life.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02284025222779154243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-5239700159869640782010-03-13T15:24:29.681-05:002010-03-13T15:24:29.681-05:00HamiltonsGhost: I think he borrowed a few lessons...HamiltonsGhost: I think he borrowed a few lessons from Patrick Kennedy. Only in this case we couldn't see the red face or hear the screams. I condemn threats of any kind against Newdow for his atheistic views. And to paraphrase, I would defend to the death his right to hold them. Zoroaster is another one of those fools who assume that they know everything and are entitled to draw their conclusions about both an opinion and the author of the opinion based on their own extremely narrow viewpoint. How many of us even give a thought to atheists, let alone to killing them?<br /><br />If he had even bothered to read the introductory paragraphs to my post today, he would know that I am among those who criticize Elizabeth Cheney for questioning the qualifications of DOJ lawyers simply for having represented terrorists in the past. That's a lawyer's job, and the more ethical the lawyer, the more likely he or she is to be found representing some pretty nasty characters. The issue is actually: "What are their views on the law, and will they perform their duties as the legal advocates for the people of the United States?" I've represented murderers and political dissidents, but I don't think anyone who knows me thinks I'm a murderer or a terrorist because of it. The real question then becomes: "Did you represent them, or do you agree with them?" That I think we have a right to know. I don't want someone who believes that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" representing the United States and its people in a terrorist trial.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-91192061963992673222010-03-13T15:05:08.671-05:002010-03-13T15:05:08.671-05:00Lawhawk--Does our new Zoroastrian poster realize t...Lawhawk--Does our new Zoroastrian poster realize that if you act weirdly enough you're going to attract other weird people?HamiltonsGhosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07777000856977635480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-52070642757476011932010-03-13T13:03:16.722-05:002010-03-13T13:03:16.722-05:00LawHawk--The Newdow event is a fine illustration o...LawHawk--The Newdow event is a fine illustration of the idiocy our country has collapsed into.<br />Every one seems to misunderstand what the Constitution means in it's address of religion.<br />Separation was not what was said or meant.<br />The creation of a State Church was and is forbidden, that is somehow missed.<br />Why is it missed? I think it is missed by the same faulty logic some one attempts<br />to justify their speeding ticket by claiming " it was not posted".<br /><br /><br />I'm sure this can all much more cleanly stated by you.<br /><br /><br />As for the last post (A. Zoroaster) is a fine example of a seriously flawed thinking process.<br />It is that variety of flawed thinking and then ranting loudly that has sunk us to the dismal bog we are in. Despised atheists? Gimme a break that has never been what I have seen or heard from some of the most profoundly dedicated Christians I have met in over 70 years. Christians if addressing atheism do so out of concern over their eternal soul never from the position of despising them.<br />Secondly atheism is only the denial of the existence of God, not that he must be purged from the rest of us. Our Constitution offers them the same rights to think what ever they want as it affords me to think what I want. They have no more right to impose their belief on me than I have to impose mine on them.<br /><br /><br />Here I go preaching to the choir. It is just so damned wrong that one can't even read about it with out getting rankled.JTBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-75319475328249259002010-03-13T12:48:32.673-05:002010-03-13T12:48:32.673-05:00A. Zoroaster: Thank you for joining us from la-la...A. Zoroaster: Thank you for joining us from la-la land. Have you had your morning drugs yet? I spent many years of my life as a defense attorney defending people with very, very unpopular views. If you weren't a drive-by troll, you'd know what my background is. You would also know the extent of my contempt for people who threaten others for their political and/or religious views. "Crazy" is a term which has no legal meaning, and the courts have long protected its use in political discourse and fair comment. You might want to bone up on your understanding of libel.<br /><br />Criticizing a man with an obvious case of zealous monomania is not in any way tantamount to encouraging his death. That's a DailKos/HuffPo talking point. Grow up.<br /><br />My associate and I are advocates of the old school concept that every dog is entitled to one bite. You've had yours. If you have something intelligent to offer, feel free to do so. If not, we have this wonderful thing called "the delete button."LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-76438090038816505052010-03-13T10:01:48.922-05:002010-03-13T10:01:48.922-05:00Michael Newdow has received multiple death threats...Michael Newdow has received multiple death threats for trying to obtain constitutionally protected rights for the most despised people in America, i.e., atheists. And you, who apparently don't have the integrity or the courage to polish his shoes, provide ammunition for such would-be assassins with the libelous claim that he's crazy. You're a disgrace to the law and to humanity.A. Zoroasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07473665017762017780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-19423741823702748022010-03-13T02:59:54.471-05:002010-03-13T02:59:54.471-05:00USArtguy: Dissenting opinions are like old soldie...USArtguy: Dissenting opinions are like old soldiers, they slowly fade away. They cannot be cited as precedent (obviouly), but "crusaders" will often cite them as argument. And in the case of brilliant dissents (not like Reinhardt's), close decisions with well-reasoned and memorable dissents can become the law at some later date. The only people who save Reinhard's opinions are those with multiple bird cages with very large birds.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-68503138700308130842010-03-13T02:17:46.437-05:002010-03-13T02:17:46.437-05:00" It could be called "A Dutiful Mind.&qu..." It could be called "A Dutiful Mind." Or maybe, "A Doo-Doo Full Mind." <br /><br />"But wait! There's more!"<br /><br />LOL! LawHawk, you should consider a semi-retirement career as an infomercial copywriter!<br /><br />Thanks for the more complete picture of this loser Newdow. Well done.<br /><br />I'm curious, what typically becomes of dissenting opinions, especially long winded ones? Do they serve much purpose other than to collect dust after being bound in leather and set on a shelf?USArtguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06062334713741697082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-8589244228578214382010-03-12T22:55:07.833-05:002010-03-12T22:55:07.833-05:00Andrew: Batted .500. Opposing counsel in the fed...Andrew: Batted .500. Opposing counsel in the federal matter was as afraid of the bipolar judges on the Ninth Circuit, that we made a deal and I withdrew the petition. Unfortunately, the client for the other attorney was the crazy one (a drug addict who abandoned her baby for over two years), so naturally, we lost in the California case.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-43241550506294203492010-03-12T22:25:51.991-05:002010-03-12T22:25:51.991-05:00Lawhawk, That would make anyone suicidal! LOL! I ...Lawhawk, That would make anyone suicidal! LOL! I hope your client was the insane one, otherwise I suppose you lost?AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89030611540194813472010-03-12T22:12:37.220-05:002010-03-12T22:12:37.220-05:00StanH: Or as we say, death in small doses. I'...StanH: Or as we say, death in small doses. I'm not becoming Pollyanna, but I'm even sensing some winds of change in the courts. The Ninth Circuit could still have gone 2-1 the other direction (Rheinhardt's a very intimidating judge). But the Roberts Court has changed the dynamic. Many of these lower court judges may be doctrinaire, but they don't want to become historical jokes. With only one Supreme Court justice likely to leave in the next year (and it's a liberal, so it won't make any difference), these lower court judges who are left, but not doctrinaire, know the chances of the makeup of the high court changing are getting slimmer by the day. Obama just can't move fast enough on his appointments, and though he'd love to fill every Circuit with leftists, he's too busy trying to save Obamapelosicare.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-88260334103213791732010-03-12T21:46:32.132-05:002010-03-12T21:46:32.132-05:00Newdow! What a waste of oxygen.
This is one thin...Newdow! What a waste of oxygen. <br /><br />This is one thing that you can hand liberals, they just keep trying, “inch by inch, everything’s a cinch.”StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.com