tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post3793200366014262313..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: Welfare Drug Testing Gains GroundAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-7407562867347068922012-02-27T00:33:22.688-05:002012-02-27T00:33:22.688-05:00T-Rav: It can be done efficiently, but in many &q...T-Rav: It can be done efficiently, but in many "welfare centers" it won't. The people who grant the benefits are dependent on people getting benefits. If there are no beneficiaries, their jobs disappear. They have a vested interest in perpetuating government dependence, which in a way they are participants in. Finding ways to give freebies to the undeserving is a major government scam, employing thousands of otherwise useless people.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-15336214689044776262012-02-27T00:27:46.244-05:002012-02-27T00:27:46.244-05:00Joel: I think that's very true. But there...Joel: I think that's very true. But there's a big "if." If the people administering the welfare and benefits programs are the same ones performing the testing, you can bet that practically none of them will be deterred. They know every trick in the book to avoid positive tests for drugs and alcohol. The test must be performed by some sort of law enforcement, separate from those who grant or deny the benefits.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-65073941889644119362012-02-27T00:24:44.600-05:002012-02-27T00:24:44.600-05:00tryanmax: The ACLU doesn't see anything the w...tryanmax: The ACLU doesn't see anything the way normal people do.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-39273508755811712602012-02-26T23:59:50.161-05:002012-02-26T23:59:50.161-05:00I don't think this could possibly be implement...I don't think this could possibly be implemented in an efficient manner. However, the people receiving these benefits have no right to complain. They're on the government teat, and when you're that beholden to another power, it should come as no surprise that they're going to be pushed around.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-13879668660374954542012-02-26T21:36:51.453-05:002012-02-26T21:36:51.453-05:00LawHawk,
Just the threat of drug testing would re...LawHawk,<br /><br />Just the threat of drug testing would remove a lot of the welfare clients. I like it. I know it is going to drive the liberals crazy.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-46706829132719048322012-02-26T21:27:59.494-05:002012-02-26T21:27:59.494-05:00Well, in any case, the ACLU wouldn't see it th...Well, in any case, the ACLU wouldn't see it the same way as we do.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-66137796221039238272012-02-26T20:09:36.229-05:002012-02-26T20:09:36.229-05:00tryanmax: Actually, I tried to leave it neutral s...tryanmax: Actually, I tried to leave it neutral since there are bad arguments on both sides.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-68219571407604446012012-02-26T19:58:48.325-05:002012-02-26T19:58:48.325-05:00All true, but I think I was looking at the racial ...All true, but I think I was looking at the racial component from the opposite direction that you took me to.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-87034161077843541272012-02-26T19:36:39.751-05:002012-02-26T19:36:39.751-05:00tryanmax: There are many approaches to cutting th...tryanmax: There are many approaches to cutting the welfare and unemployment rolls, and we've discussed two of them. Both help, but are not the only ones. My younger daughter sees signs of drug use and alcohol use at most of her random inspections of homes, but this is California, and that's not reportable unless she can directly attach it to child-abuse. Nearly 90% of her visits are to welfare homes, but she's helpless to do anything about it. The racial element is already there, and wouldn't be worsened by application of reasonable cause, though the ACLU would disagree.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-50368053959080583772012-02-26T18:26:46.646-05:002012-02-26T18:26:46.646-05:00I'm with Andrew that the primary concern is th...I'm with Andrew that the primary concern is the lack of a phase-out. That lack is effectively a financial wall that pens people inside the system. It also puts people just outside but only scraping by in the frustrating position of pondering whether they ought to actually seek a pay <i>cut</i>. (As a single father of a special needs child, the idea is none too foreign to me.) <br /><br />As to when testing should occur, at a minimum it should be a part of the application process. Beyond that, I would prefer it be conducted randomly. The provision that a public official find reasonable cause is a total skate. Most aid recipients that I have known have insufficient contact with officials to ever possibly establish reasonable cause. Those that do have regular contact tend to become friendly to the degree that they would turn a blind eye. In this case, "reasonable cause" would merely be handing a weapon to bureaucrats willing to use it. In my area (and I don't suspect it is unique) there is already such a strong racial component to the aid system on both sides of the counter, I can easily imagine how such a weapon might be wielded. <br /><br />Sorry if that sounds at all ugly, but it's what I've observed.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-60273005903565204422012-02-26T16:35:56.488-05:002012-02-26T16:35:56.488-05:00Andrew: The evasion is a large factor mitigating ...Andrew: The evasion is a large factor mitigating against the tests, but that is as much a function of how the tests are administered as the efficacy of the tests themselves. Simple urinalysis, properly conducted, is relatively cheap compared to giving away public funds without restraint. I think the tests should be conducted <i>and</i> we should institute programs such as you suggest. Each of these little bits add up to big expenditures. No single solution will work, but we can't keep throwing good money after bad.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-44403131919644740202012-02-26T16:14:42.644-05:002012-02-26T16:14:42.644-05:00I see the point of it, but frankly drug testing is...I see the point of it, but frankly drug testing is really expensive (and very easy to evade). I'd rather they just banned people with criminal record from getting benefits and cut off the people who are able to work and unwilling to take whatever job is offered. Then phase the benefits out at a rate of 10% reduction per dollar earned so these people have an incentive to get a job.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com