tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post3965128458896301790..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: What's the Debt Dealio?AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-2861644210115015752011-07-30T21:19:16.284-04:002011-07-30T21:19:16.284-04:00Ben, You're welcome! I agree about the timing...Ben, You're welcome! I agree about the timing. We just don't have the power we need yet. So the thinking should be to (1) get what we can right now and (2) set ourselves up for a stronger 2012. That should be the goals.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-35330902856479516392011-07-30T16:47:59.611-04:002011-07-30T16:47:59.611-04:00Mucho merci gracias, Andrew.
I'll go there nex...Mucho merci gracias, Andrew.<br />I'll go there next. Hafta do a few chores first. :^(<br /><br />I concur with you and Dr. Sowell. <br />The timing (and cooperation) just ain't here yet, for a variety of reasons, but the main one is we only have the House right now.<br /><br />So we go foir the lesser evil until we can strike (for lefty trolls the word strike in this sense means...aw forget it, you'll still twist the intended meaning you twits!).USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-8274022108131697092011-07-30T15:14:31.510-04:002011-07-30T15:14:31.510-04:00Ben, No one has mentioned the Sowell article yet. ...Ben, No one has mentioned the Sowell article yet. I saw it yesterday -- excellent read! Thanks for linking it.<br /><br />I don't think anyone love this bill, but sometimes you have to take the best you can get. And right now, it seems that this is the best we can get.<br /><br />(FYI, in terms of the comments, this discussion continued at the end of the Jobs Agenda post.)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-63494550070840051522011-07-30T14:42:17.774-04:002011-07-30T14:42:17.774-04:00Superb post, Andrew!
I'm still reading the co...Superb post, Andrew!<br /><br />I'm still reading the comments but if no one else has mentioned it here is Thomas Sowell's take on Boehner's plan:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/579618/201107271800/Boehners-Plan-Is-Not-Perfect-But-It-Aint-Bad.htm" rel="nofollow">Not Perfect But It Ain't Bad</a><br /><br />It's a good article and goes well with your post. :^)<br /><br />http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/579618/201107271800/Boehners-Plan-Is-Not-Perfect-But-It-Aint-Bad.htmUSS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-9435422581399104252011-07-28T06:43:13.410-04:002011-07-28T06:43:13.410-04:00Andrew,
I just realized I hijacked this thread. T...Andrew,<br /><br />I just realized I hijacked this thread. That wasn't my intent. I just wanted to get people to back off a bit from starting to diss the new guys because they object. There is more to it than just objection. Remember this has gone fast. No sooner than one proposal gets put up, then it gets shot down and another one gets put up. There has been little analysis of each proposal.<br /><br />Ideally there should be four or five proposals where Congress can pick from. I also mean honest proposals. Not one where the proponents say it does something, yet in actuality it does the exact opposite. <br /><br />Boehner made two mistakes. One, he thought he had the automatic backing of Congress Freshmen. Two, that his proposal was accurate. Not that he lied, but accurate in that it did what he says it does. I attribute the second to the speed with which this has moved. The first to Washington Hubris.<br /><br />In quieter times, this would have been corrected well before the deadline. A deadline which I noted earlier is wrong.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-9936641336292445952011-07-27T17:12:45.678-04:002011-07-27T17:12:45.678-04:00T-Rav,
It isn't easy to predict these things....T-Rav,<br /><br />It isn't easy to predict these things. <br /><br />MSM already has headlines that blame this all on the Republicans especially those mean Tea Partiers should it not pass. <br /><br />A little known dirty secret is in the works. <a href="http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/07/27/its-all-too-odd/" rel="nofollow"> Erick Erickson of RedState sent an email this morning.</a> Reid's plan is the same as Boehner's plan. Right down to the wording and Name of the plan. At least it did before the changes being written into Boehner's plan today.<br /><br />On your next question, True. That is premature. Then again, he may have said something like, "I am against any plan I haven't read nor seen the numbers." Is there video of him saying he is against Boehner's plan. Or is that a paraphrase from a reporter?<br /><br />I am willing to give the Freshmen a large benefit of the doubt. <br /><br />There is an old game which is a variation on musical chairs. It involves a toy shaped like a bomb with a timer on it. The timer is set and the toy bomb is passed around. When it goes off, the one holding it is removed from the game. I loved it when I was a child. The eventual winner is the next to the one last holding the bomb.<br /><br />This is very similar to that game.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-16502605686073038012011-07-27T16:55:29.922-04:002011-07-27T16:55:29.922-04:00And along those same lines, there was a really dum...And along those same lines, there was a really dumb moment back on Monday when AZ Rep. Jason Chaffetz adamantly declared his opposition to Boehner's bill, and then later admitted he hadn't seen the numbers for it yet. Now we know what those numbers were, of course, but in the absence of such knowledge one way or another, isn't such a declaration just a little premature?T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-6085170494528950972011-07-27T16:46:40.596-04:002011-07-27T16:46:40.596-04:00Joel, I'm not saying the Republicans haven'...Joel, I'm not saying the Republicans haven't made mistakes in how they approached this issue. They should have gotten their plans laid out sooner; they should have started out demanding much higher spending cuts than they did, since those initial numbers always get negotiated down anyway. Coulda, woulda, shoulda--but there's nothing we can do about that now. <br /><br />Here's the two choices we now have: either the House passes the Boehner plan or it doesn't. What happens in either case, I don't know. Harry Reid has sworn up and down the Boehner bill is DOA should it reach the Senate. Fine. If it gets there, the burden for what follows is all on him and Obama. Make them own it. <br /><br />If it doesn't pass, then what? The House votes on the Reid bill? That's not good; but if neither bill makes it out of Congress, and we hit the debt limit, surely you don't think the Tea Party is guaranteed to win, come what may? How is that a certainty? Isn't it just as plausible that we'll get blamed for the consequences of that event?T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-78626774968831089592011-07-27T16:30:25.982-04:002011-07-27T16:30:25.982-04:00T-Rav,
Yes, that is true, so, Why didn't Boeh...T-Rav,<br /><br />Yes, that is true, so, Why didn't Boehner make sure they were on board with his plan? Why didn't he do the necessary steps to convince the Freshmen to climb aboard? Did any one person call on them from Boehner's camp? Or all he thought was they were new and they had no ideas worth mentioning. <br /><br />Remember, the Freshmen were sent there to put a stop to pusillanimous behavior of our representatives. Putting bills up with out reading them. Getting them passed before the CBO scores them. Shoving bills down our throats with no regard to the consequences.<br /><br />This is how we got the Edison light bulb banned and replaced it with the curly cue light bulb. On paper, it sounded GREAT. In real life, the curly cue light bulb may be responsible for fires. It is a real life health hazard. <br /><br />Here is another thing. This debt limit was known about for over a year. Why the last minute work on it? Why didn't they work on it before now? They could have worked on it in Feb? Mar? Apr? May?Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-87376961930123712362011-07-27T16:16:23.242-04:002011-07-27T16:16:23.242-04:00Andrew,
Knowing what you don't want is a plan...Andrew,<br /><br />Knowing what you don't want is a plan as well.<br /><br />You don't want your children to become crack addicts. That is the start of a plan. Knowing what you DON'T want. <br /><br />If the Freshmen had voted yes on Boehner's plan today (AS WAS SCHEDULED), we wouldn't have gotten a good plan. Also, the August 2 deadline isn't real. It is August 10. It gives us another week with which to MAKE SURE Boehner's plan is a good one.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-19221152714663854962011-07-27T16:14:51.668-04:002011-07-27T16:14:51.668-04:00Joel, if I was an NBC or CNN reporter, I know whic...Joel, if I was an NBC or CNN reporter, I know which headline I'd choose. But a lot of House Republicans--the CCB group, for one--as well as several of their Senate counterparts were on the record as opposing Boehner's bill well before the CBO's report ever came out. And a lot of Tea Partiers have stated total opposition to raising the debt limit under any circumstances. So there are some opposing the bill because of the CBO report and are waiting to see what the revised version states, and there are some who are opposing the bill, period.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-68533788826940241592011-07-27T15:54:43.676-04:002011-07-27T15:54:43.676-04:00T-Rav,
All I heard, was that the Freshman wouldn&...T-Rav,<br /><br />All I heard, was that the Freshman wouldn't vote for Boehner's plan. Not why they wouldn't vote for it. Now, if you were a reporter and you heard that the Freshmen wouldn't vote for a plan, would you just print that or would you find out why they wouldn't vote for it?<br /><br />Bear in mind that the MSM doesn't like us, and wishes us harm. The headlines "Freshmen Won't Vote for Boehner's Plan" is much more damaging than "Freshmen Won't Vote for Boehner's Plan Until They Have Read It and Listened to the CBO's Report"<br /><br />One is damaging to the virtual Picture of the Newbie's. The other is paint's the Picture in a more flattering way.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-13389152038197948002011-07-27T15:43:16.002-04:002011-07-27T15:43:16.002-04:00Joel, Read my comment again, I am calling them the...Joel, Read my comment again, I am calling them the children (your words) because they are throwing a tantrum. They are upset and have no clue what they want, so they are objecting to everything. They have no plan.<br /><br />As for the car keys, the voters are going to take those away if they aren't careful.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-70931909845746310002011-07-27T15:42:01.225-04:002011-07-27T15:42:01.225-04:00Joel, I don't necessarily disagree with any of...Joel, I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the current situation. Yeah, the media and the Beltway elites are totally biased against us--that's not exactly news. But it still doesn't give us a third option besides the Boehner and McConnell bills. So now what?T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-43862239815974597902011-07-27T15:40:41.458-04:002011-07-27T15:40:41.458-04:00Andrew,
Calling 178 people children because they ...Andrew,<br /><br />Calling 178 people children because they objected to a plan and not listening to what their plan is about isn't adult behavior. Aint no sech thang as a congress critter without a plan. <br /><br />Still, the car is careening down this dusty road. Can you grab the keys?Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-40775144893005310032011-07-27T15:24:58.393-04:002011-07-27T15:24:58.393-04:00Joel, Also, it wasn't anything the Freshman di...Joel, Also, it wasn't anything the Freshman did that revealed the problems with the Boehner plan, it was the CBO. And now all the people who support the plan are fixing it, not the people who are still opposing it.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-9940314301884895362011-07-27T15:23:43.213-04:002011-07-27T15:23:43.213-04:00Joel, I've pointed out why it's false -- b...Joel, I've pointed out why it's false -- because the people you've identified as the adults aren't acting like adults.<br /><br /><br />By the way, the freshmen are starting to come around to the Boehner plan.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-73390042185895744912011-07-27T15:00:19.998-04:002011-07-27T15:00:19.998-04:00T-Rav,
I got tired of people automatically thinki...T-Rav,<br /><br />I got tired of people automatically thinking that the TPRs have not put forth ideas when they stopped to object to Boehner's plan. Good thing they did, because in the rush to get it through Congress, similar to the way the Democrats did with ObamaCare) the CBO found that it wasn't what it was purported to be.<br /><br />They have been generally ignored and talked about in a desultory fashion. <br /><br />Also, the Media has put forth that the TPR's have no plan. I don't believe it, because they have lied about the Republicans having no plans, yet had plenty of plans, just no media outlet willing to say they did.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-35138365528452153802011-07-27T14:54:21.030-04:002011-07-27T14:54:21.030-04:00LawHawk,
Grab the keys from the kids, will you?LawHawk,<br /><br />Grab the keys from the kids, will you?Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-2465076567756052872011-07-27T14:53:34.964-04:002011-07-27T14:53:34.964-04:00Andrew,
Calling it a false analogy doesn't ma...Andrew,<br /><br />Calling it a false analogy doesn't make it so. You must prove it false before you can go on. :-)Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-91864523313374770332011-07-27T12:24:04.760-04:002011-07-27T12:24:04.760-04:00T-Rav, Yep, the big 100! Woo hoo! LOL!T-Rav, Yep, the big 100! Woo hoo! LOL!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-21954726390415159032011-07-27T11:44:47.003-04:002011-07-27T11:44:47.003-04:00Is this still going on? 100 comments or bust, peop...Is this still going on? 100 comments or bust, people!!T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-29571685512671744842011-07-27T11:37:53.798-04:002011-07-27T11:37:53.798-04:00Joel: And we'll be stranded in the middle of ...Joel: And we'll be stranded in the middle of nowhere without fuel, with our front wheels hanging over the edge of the cliff, without food and water, and hoping that someone will come and rescue us so that our attempts to get out of the disabled vehicle don't finish sending the car over the cliff. But we'll still have our principles.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-52789173575589220252011-07-27T10:26:16.248-04:002011-07-27T10:26:16.248-04:00Joel, That's a false analogy. There is nothin...Joel, That's a false analogy. There is nothing adult about not knowing what you want and then criticizing everyone else's plans. And there is definitely nothing adult about endangering our economy or playing chicken with the people who will be hurt by this when you don't know what it is you want.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-17547870846610978802011-07-27T07:38:27.897-04:002011-07-27T07:38:27.897-04:00Andrew and LawHawk,
Consider this for a moment. T...Andrew and LawHawk,<br /><br />Consider this for a moment. The adults in the car are the 178 TPRs who fancy themselves latter day Patrick Henrys. All the rest are the children and near adults wrestling control of a car careening down the road to a cliff. Now, the adults (TPRs) are yelling at the kids to stop the car. The kids ignore them and continue their bickering, screeching, and grabbing at the wheel. <br /><br />One adult (TPR) says to the another, "The children aren't going to listen to us, so we take away the gas credit card. Eventually the car will run out of gas and the car will stop and we won't go over the cliff." Another passenger, almost an adult, says, "But running the car dry will screw up the engine." The adult replies, "Running over a cliff won't help it either."<br /><br />Something to think about when you demand someone to come around to your thinking. Are you sure you are the adult?Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.com