tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post4233915366821661471..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: The Speech: Evaluation of ObamaCareAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-27786926647642275902009-09-10T18:05:28.768-04:002009-09-10T18:05:28.768-04:00Did anyone happen to see Charlie Rose Show after t...Did anyone happen to see Charlie Rose Show after the speech? Thaddeus McCotter, Rich Lowry, the editor of NYT, and other former legislator who I don't remember were on doing a post mortem of the speech. It was interesting, but even the NYT editor wasn't really snowed. But, what I really want to know is WHY DON'T THE REPUBLICANS GET MCCOTTER TO DO THE REBUTTAL????? Sorry, I had to yell. He is just incredibly smart, direct and he knows what he is saying. It is almost worth moving to Michigan just to be represented by him.BevfromNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-57083488692096429882009-09-10T16:11:51.039-04:002009-09-10T16:11:51.039-04:00Writer X, Thanks. Tell your friends! ;-)
I read...Writer X, Thanks. Tell your friends! ;-)<br /><br />I read the AP article. It was ok, but rather shallow. They looked at a couple of pure facts and one or two assertions, but they never looked very deeply or at the logic behind what he said.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-81317468844943775592009-09-10T16:08:53.398-04:002009-09-10T16:08:53.398-04:00Jed, I thank you sincerely! :-)Jed, I thank you sincerely! :-)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-76331593687376554862009-09-10T16:08:34.144-04:002009-09-10T16:08:34.144-04:00Andrew, this is outstanding. I heard on the radio...Andrew, this is outstanding. I heard on the radio that the AP actually did a "fact check" of the speech, too. I doubt it was as thorough as yours. Anyway, I was surprised that they would even write such an article.Writer Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16505411188186283813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-25612006780693287032009-09-10T16:07:35.853-04:002009-09-10T16:07:35.853-04:00DCAlleyKat,
I'm not sure I agree that he cash...DCAlleyKat,<br /><br />I'm not sure I agree that he cashed in a lot of chips. CNN's poll seems to show that Democratic viewers outnumbered Republicans 3-1, so I don't think he was speaking to a lot of people other than his base.<br /><br />Will supporting him help or hurt? Honestly, I think it will do neither <i>among the general population</i> because the bill won't take effect for several years. So it's passage will be a non-event for them, until things start to go wrong -- at which point they won't remember the cause.<br /><br />BUT, 2010 and 2012 aren't about the general population, they are about turn out. And supporting Obama will bring out huge numbers of Republicans, but few Democrats. So I would say it will hurt them.<br /><br />Finally, will this speech work? No. As proof, I offer the fact that the biggest thing they've latched onto is the "you lie" comment. If that's the only thing that came out of this speech to excite the base, then it failed.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-41606185558296531922009-09-10T16:06:40.815-04:002009-09-10T16:06:40.815-04:00Having looked forward to today's analysis by a...Having looked forward to today's analysis by a variety of sources, I'd have to say, regarding this post Andrew, (and with apologies to James Bond,) "nobody does it better." <br /><br />There was also a guy on Neil Boortz's radio show this morning that was pretty good at analyzing the specific politics at play. I think the guy was named Matt or Mitch from a source called Insider Advantage. I have never checked out Boortz's webside (or if he even has one) but if he does, it will probably be on there.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-35884194941726390482009-09-10T15:55:07.365-04:002009-09-10T15:55:07.365-04:00Obama cashed in a huge chunk of political capital ...Obama cashed in a huge chunk of political capital to rally his base.<br />Question #1 Will it work? <br />Question #2 Will it be worth the cost?<br />Sort of his own Cost Benefit Analysis Death Panel. And that brings...<br />Question #3 Politically speaking is supporting "him and his plan" an asset or a liability to one's 2010/12 campaign for re-election?!DCAlleyKathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13595521064453455995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-91808466370738149172009-09-10T15:37:42.639-04:002009-09-10T15:37:42.639-04:00Thanks Patti! I call 'em like I see 'em.Thanks Patti! I call 'em like I see 'em.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-57145650891296473772009-09-10T15:34:22.964-04:002009-09-10T15:34:22.964-04:00StanH: Dear Leader does inspire me to great heigh...StanH: Dear Leader does inspire me to great heights of pomposity and loquacious luminosity. See--it's contagious.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89231110170976013722009-09-10T15:34:03.041-04:002009-09-10T15:34:03.041-04:00listen, i just want you to know it's really ha...listen, i just want you to know it's really hard reading through my tears from laughing at this "How exactly is that going to work dumbass. .. er, sorry, Mr. President?"<br /><br />i'm linking this to facebook so all the youngans can have an education today.<br /><br />*dumbass* hehe....pattihttp://www.notawonk.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-42700554643776255902009-09-10T15:14:03.534-04:002009-09-10T15:14:03.534-04:00Barry will be certain that Government Healthcare i...Barry will be certain that Government Healthcare is deficit neutral if he has to take every last dollar of taxpayers money, he nobly proclaims. <br /><br />Lawhawk it’s a banner day on the boards when you get to use grandiloquent in response, Ha!StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-58142553462455727362009-09-10T14:28:47.249-04:002009-09-10T14:28:47.249-04:00Lawhawk, I'm a firm believer in fighting on ma...Lawhawk, I'm a firm believer in fighting on many fronts. So there is always room for an "indignation front."<br /><br />But there is nothing more devastating to a demagogue than to laugh at him and point out how obviously wrong the foundations of his argument are. That's the one kind of argument demagogue’s aren't prepared to fight -- it makes them look wrong and stupid and it just drains the emotion out of their appeal. And since emotion is all they are offering, that's devastating.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-19074180562008835812009-09-10T14:23:07.000-04:002009-09-10T14:23:07.000-04:00Andrew: "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm...Andrew: "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore. In fact, I'm outraged!" Oops, I did that wrong. Although I think a little good healthy righteous indignation is in order, I agree that not only should we remain thoughtful and consistent, but it's exactly how we can defeat him. Demagoguery can only get him so far, and then he has to quit talking in platitudes and answer direct questions and offer concrete proposals. Then we've got him.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-27186802701350207522009-09-10T14:12:37.324-04:002009-09-10T14:12:37.324-04:00Lawhawk, Of course it was, it was a "base spe...Lawhawk, Of course it was, it was a "base speech" delivered on national television. This speech wasn't intended to sway you or any Republican. It was aimed entirely at his left flank.<br /><br />He needs to fire up his base because they've either turned on him (the hard left) or fallen asleep (the soft left).<br /><br />He needed to deliver a speech that attacked "the enemy" -- one that demonized the right people (Republicans, boogeyman Palin, insurers, the rich, etc.) to get his base angry. He needed to call it "his plan" to give them something to rally around. And he needed to give specific demands to give them something to put on their signs and as a yardstick against which they can judge how well the Congress is complying with his wishes.<br /><br />Hence, you saw it as angry, demagogic and deceitful. But his base will have seen it as a re-start, a call to action.<br /><br />I'm just pointing out in my article all of the BS that he spewed as part of his speech. Because that's the best way to defuse demagoguery, to meet it with fact rather than hyperbole or outrage.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-33089380272507137202009-09-10T13:59:16.966-04:002009-09-10T13:59:16.966-04:00ScottDS: I'll be briefer than Andrew on the R...ScottDS: I'll be briefer than Andrew on the Republican response. "C-R-A-P."LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-63774455254914755252009-09-10T13:56:56.937-04:002009-09-10T13:56:56.937-04:00Andrew: You're right about the ordinary proce...Andrew: You're right about the ordinary process for getting Congress to enact a bill. My problem with Obama's speech, is that he uses language like "under my plan," or "I can guarantee . . . ." Like the Congressman with the sign, I keep asking "what plan?" His messianic zeal is the problem, not the method. Reagan and other great presidents would address Congress by saying "what I would like to see is . . ." or "I want to see Congress pass the following . . . " Obama talks with certainty about what will or will not happen under his plan, and there is no plan. Just grandiloquent wishes, lofty phrases, phony accounting and economics, misdirection, demagogic appeals to "trust me," interspersed with the occasional outright lie.<br /><br />What he did in that speech (and most of his previous speeches on the subject) was act as if he actually has a plan, and if those damned demagogues and tea partiers would just get out of the way, Congress would enact it. That's why the speech was dishonest and demagogic. And it also explains why he warned those who actually would work with his people that he won't tolerate "petty politics and game-playing." It was truly one of the most partisan and hostile speeches before Congress that I have seen in a lifetime of watching the D.C. circus.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-9902430292835220052009-09-10T13:53:08.275-04:002009-09-10T13:53:08.275-04:00Your right Andrew my bad, I was thinking in this t...Your right Andrew my bad, I was thinking in this term: <br /><br />hy·poc·ri·sies<br />1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.<br />2. An act or instance of such falseness.<br />hypocrisy [hip-ok-rass-ee]<br />Noun<br />pl -sies<br />1. the practice of claiming to have standards or beliefs that are contrary to one's real character or actual behaviour<br /><br />But your right. You can take down the post it does not belong here.Sanmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05595928294625624125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-55227720390453540132009-09-10T13:51:15.255-04:002009-09-10T13:51:15.255-04:00Scott, LOL! I hadn't thought about that, but ...Scott, LOL! I hadn't thought about that, but it would have been beautiful! Kaaaaaaaaahhhhn!<br /><br />My thoughts on the Republican response are less than charitable. Weak points, poor reasoning, no political instincts, poorly delivered -- and worst of all, they had days to come up with something devastating.<br /><br />I think the Republicans as a group need to start taking classes in politics, argument and public speaking. Right now, they all stink.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-66779459987300213492009-09-10T13:46:18.913-04:002009-09-10T13:46:18.913-04:00Lawhawk, You're applying logic where there ain...Lawhawk, You're applying logic where there ain't no logic.<br /><br />If the things he claims can be done, then he should do them before messing with the rest of the system. But you and I know that they can't be done, and he's simply lying to try to convince people that there won't be any pain. He thinks that once the system is in place, people will accept it and whatever "pain" needs to be done can be done then.<br /><br />It's like drug dealers giving out the first hit for free.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-7011255461185855732009-09-10T13:43:35.133-04:002009-09-10T13:43:35.133-04:00Yes, you answered my question. I simply don't ...Yes, you answered my question. I simply don't have any more questions right now (my brain is still in sleep mode). :-)<br /><br />On another note, what are your thoughts on the Republican response?<br /><br />P.S. Just to prove what a huge nerd I am, whenever I hear "You lie!" (which is what the Congressman said) I naturally want to follow it up with "On Ceti Alpha V, there was life! A fair chance!" :-DScottDSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-51499555995911311342009-09-10T13:39:43.427-04:002009-09-10T13:39:43.427-04:00Scott, did we answer your questions? Or are you s...Scott, did we answer your questions? Or are you still looking for more?AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-55668717600408853542009-09-10T13:38:33.727-04:002009-09-10T13:38:33.727-04:00Sanmon, I see no connection between Christianity a...Sanmon, I see no connection between Christianity and his health care plan -- two different issues.<br /><br />In terms of there being a plan, he laid out the requirements for the plan last night. He gave about a dozen fairly detailed points that he wants. Since he is relying on five different Congressional panels to assemble the plan, there is no need for him to write his own version, he's told them what he wanted.<br /><br />Reagan was the same way. He didn't present finished legislation for the things he wanted. He spoke in broad principles and interspersed them with specifics. He then left it up to his people in the Congress to draft the appropriate legislation or his agency heads to draft the appropriate regulations. That's how its done.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-34665513877295304082009-09-10T13:38:03.467-04:002009-09-10T13:38:03.467-04:00Andrew: Are you suggesting that Dear Leader may n...Andrew: Are you suggesting that Dear Leader may not have been entirely honest in his healing the sick and raising the dead speech? LOL<br /><br />My biggest question (well, after asking myself how we ever allowed this schmuck to get elected in the first place) was: "If we can save $700 billion or $800 billion while improving medical care just by cutting waste, duplicatiion and inefficiency, why don't the Obamacrats and the RINO fellow-travelers prove it to us by doing exactly that with Medicare and MedicAid?" Do that, and I'll consider supporting Obamacare. (Don't worry, I haven't gone crazy. I know it can't be done, and even if it could, the government is the last entity on earth that could do it).LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-24342080892370907802009-09-10T13:35:13.497-04:002009-09-10T13:35:13.497-04:00Andrew and LawHawk -
Thank-you both for your (as ...Andrew and LawHawk -<br /><br />Thank-you both for your (as usual) illuminating comments. I realize it's a complicated issue too big for one thread; I just wanted your $.02.<br /><br />I have nothing further to add at this point. :-)ScottDSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-84845140879698049802009-09-10T13:29:25.128-04:002009-09-10T13:29:25.128-04:00Scott, you don't have to be anyone's fan h...Scott, you don't have to be anyone's fan here. Our policy (if you will recall) is that we do not endorse any candidate. There are no sacred cows here -- we're about truth no matter who it hurts.<br /><br />(And people should NOT turn this into a pro/anti-Palin thread).<br /><br />The idea of "death panels" probably should be dealt with in an entirely separate thread because you're touching upon a lot of different and complex moral/religious/ethical issues that really aren't easy to address in a single comment.<br /><br />Moreover, the "death panel" issue is entirely a political issue, it's not really relevant to the functioning of the health care plan.<br /><br />Indeed, while the idea of "death panels" worked well to scare people, the truth is that it already happens in our system every day.<br /><br />Doctors, hospital boards, insurers, and families all make these kinds of decisions every single day. Sometimes, it's about suffering, sometimes its about morality or religion. But usually it's about money.<br /><br />The real issue is about rationing. We ration already because there is more desire for health care than there is supply. In fact, pricing is a form of rationing. If you are willing to pay for something, you can get it. If you aren't, then you can't.<br /><br />The problem with Obama's plan is that you will no longer make that decision. The government will make it for you. And whereas you would have based the decision on whether or not it is worth it to you to pay for the treatment, the government will make the decision on whether or not treating you is worth it to the system.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com