tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post453445475421307561..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: American Exceptionalism Debate Goes OnAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-23718882639530312212010-03-09T13:22:51.329-05:002010-03-09T13:22:51.329-05:00Individualist: I have indeed read Sowell's bo...Individualist: I have indeed read Sowell's book (and almost everything else he's written). He has a brilliant mind, and his writing is unusually readable. I recommend that book to everyone.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-71258666911381982642010-03-09T02:32:00.674-05:002010-03-09T02:32:00.674-05:00LawhawkSF
I am not sure if you have ever read it ...LawhawkSF<br /><br />I am not sure if you have ever read it but I would like to express a point from Dr Thomas Sowell's Book "A Conflict of Visions", a great read.<br /><br />Essentially Sowell stratifies political ideology along a line between a constrained and unconstrained view of the world. He classifies typical conservatism as a constrained philosophy i.e. that mankind is constrained in his ability to control the world. Thus conservatives value tradition, set laws, religious institutions because these things have been developed over decades, perhaps even centuries and thus are more likely to work. Liberalism on the other hand is defined as an unconstrained ideology, the belief that man has great ability to control his surroundings. Thus the belief in things like the constitution as a living document, the call for social programs and monitoring and the lack of consideration for tradition, religion etc. because if there are problems it is because someone failed to fix them.<br /><br />What was interesting was Dr. Sowell’s description of communism. Communism was to his mind constrained in the past but as mankind moved to the future became unconstrained. Thus the old ways of capitalism to a communist were a system that left mankind little ability to control his environment however as we progressed to more communistic systems we would gain more control over the world.<br /><br />In reading your post I think I am beginning to understand how this philosophy explains former communists and Barack Obama today. The fact that every time they have implemented their ideas they have failed is not given much weight because they understand this to be due to the constrained ways of the past. They are thus able to convince themselves that in the future there plans will finally work and improve things, because we will be considered to have progressed politically.<br /><br />Thus the idea of American Exceptionalism is at its core at odds with their viewpoint. How can documents written by the founders in 1776 be the best plan for our society today. They did not have the benefit of the future understanding that society will move to a utopian goal. Just my thoughts!Individualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-14957402820494185622010-03-09T00:12:07.530-05:002010-03-09T00:12:07.530-05:00HamiltonsGhost: I like your thinking.HamiltonsGhost: I like your thinking.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89608675876887332862010-03-08T23:46:46.177-05:002010-03-08T23:46:46.177-05:00Lawhawk--Obama definitely believes in American exc...Lawhawk--Obama definitely believes in American exceptionalism. He loves to point out that we're the exception to European-style socialism and European-style modernized serfism. He wants us to cease being exceptional. He's going to lose.HamiltonsGhosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07777000856977635480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-14812747428175637792010-03-08T23:19:24.851-05:002010-03-08T23:19:24.851-05:00StanH: That's exactly what soft socialism is ...StanH: That's exactly what soft socialism is all about. Nobody fails, but nobody wins either. It's all warm and fuzzy and boring as hell. Ultimately it destroys creativity and freedom of thought.<br /><br />Franklin is often misquoted about security. He knew that a certain amount of it was necessary for the concept of ordered liberty. What he really said was that those who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary security deserve neither, and will lose both.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-4915626648544563112010-03-08T22:41:25.313-05:002010-03-08T22:41:25.313-05:00It’s not easy being free. Many will subjugate them...It’s not easy being free. Many will subjugate themselves for the buzz word “security!” …a popular zeitgeist that must be kicked out of the American psyche. Freedom of opportunity, doesn’t mean a guaranteed result, failure is a real possibility, this is where the human spirit excels, in risk comes innovation …sus…American Exceptionalism. The good news is, the real number of hard core statist is 20 to 30%, there just real noisy. The bad news for the statist, the 70 or 80% are paying close attention their BS is not being spewed in a vacuum, and in several election cycles, we can get back to our winning ways. Go America!StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-90175119827361972592010-03-08T21:23:32.327-05:002010-03-08T21:23:32.327-05:00StanH: I think you hit on an important point. Wh...StanH: I think you hit on an important point. When politicians aren't stirring up European-style class resentments, American of every stripe are proud to be Americans. In most instances, about half of us will agree with the government in power, and the other half will disagree. But Obama has changed the dynamic. For the majority of Americans, deep distrust of the government prevails, and for a smaller percentage who don't understand American exceptionalism, trust in the government has become a surrender of most of what we have held dear for over two hundred years.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-3293262616871148192010-03-08T21:18:45.871-05:002010-03-08T21:18:45.871-05:00WriterX: I think I would add that consensus is so...WriterX: I think I would add that consensus is something we've been able to reach much of the time regardless of who's in power. From the day Obama said his form of government would be based on "I won," we knew that this was going to be different. For him, consensus means "agree with me."LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-81162188308484891142010-03-08T21:12:15.873-05:002010-03-08T21:12:15.873-05:00American Exceptionalism is a state of mind, you kn...American Exceptionalism is a state of mind, you know it when you see it. A certain moxy, or a swagger if you will. And whether you be a titan of industry, or a street sweeper there’s a certain pride in being American, foreigners call it arrogance, a belief in the possibilities, the need to win. <br /><br />Barry is a creature of Academia, where the moral equivalence argument prevails. This is why you get his British, Greek analogy, in his pea brain there is no difference. In my mind he’s at such great odds with the electorate, because of this glaring fact. I love a statement in the movie “Patton”…George C. Scott, to paraphrase, “America will not abide a loser,” in short Barry is counter to a basic American belief.<br /><br />Time to watch, “24!” …see you in a bit!StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-1283754203836086122010-03-08T19:37:16.868-05:002010-03-08T19:37:16.868-05:00With Obama's view, there's only one right ...With Obama's view, there's only one right way. That's troubling. He pays lip-service (and his actions demonstrate) when he says he wants to build consensus and even bipartisanship in his decision-making. That kind of thinking is the exact opposite of what defines American exceptionalism and makes it great.Writer Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16505411188186283813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-17347757156136857432010-03-08T18:59:02.824-05:002010-03-08T18:59:02.824-05:00Unsurprisingly, National Review today felt it nece...Unsurprisingly, <i>National Review</i> today felt it necessary to defend its position against an attack by <i>The New Republic</i>. Although it's largely a conservative/liberal argument, Rich Lowry and Ramesh Ponnuru also clarify points brought up in my article. It's an interesting read: <a href="http://article.nationalreview.com/427178/america-the-exceptional-again/rich-lowry-ramesh-ponnuru?page=1" rel="nofollow">America The Exceptional</a>.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-28568822904007951182010-03-08T18:52:37.790-05:002010-03-08T18:52:37.790-05:00Andrew: Well said. Obama doesn't understand ...Andrew: Well said. Obama doesn't understand the difference between righting present wrongs and nursing ancient grievances which frequently no longer bear any resemblance to America as she is today. A divider can't exist without his special pleaders. If everything was well with the nation, why would he need to fundamentally transform it? Because he truly believes that the grievances far outweigh the evolving realities. <br /><br />What could be worse than slavery? Not much. But didn't we fight a Civil War over that? Did we not pass substantial legislation in the 60s to eliminate legal barriers to equality. Have we not spent another forty years working to see that words match deeds? Obama thinks no. He could never get elected president of a nation united in its Herculean efforts to achieve a color-blind rule of law. So he has to turn people against each other, and promise to be all things to all men. How's that working out for him?LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-79052756585908027292010-03-08T18:39:48.375-05:002010-03-08T18:39:48.375-05:00Obama strikes me as guy who is deeply involved in ...Obama strikes me as guy who is deeply involved in the grievance business. Has America made mistakes? Yep. But the great thing about America is that we try to fix them and then move on.<br /><br />Unfortunately, too many on the left are into the grievance business and not only refuse to move on, they blow the mistakes of the past way out of proportion, attribute them to some deep evil within all Americans, and then sooth themselves that the reasons for their own failures are that the rest of us still secretly want to continue all the bad things of the past and thus are causing their failures.<br /><br />This is utterly ridiculous.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-50466538687411407962010-03-08T18:35:09.204-05:002010-03-08T18:35:09.204-05:00Tennessee: I certainly see that as a gut-level is...Tennessee: I certainly see that as a gut-level issue for him. Eurocentric doesn't bother him as much as ethnocentric. He sees the Europeans as good social welfare liberals, and blinds himself to the racial and religious hatred that is growing rapidly there while it was shrinking into insignificance here before he decided to stir everything up again. He's the first black president, as well as the first to say "why can't we be more like the Europeans?" Be careful what you wish for, Barack.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-59982925969978529972010-03-08T18:23:44.128-05:002010-03-08T18:23:44.128-05:00Hawk, in my view, Obama feels the great promise of...Hawk, in my view, Obama feels the great promise of America has fallen dreadfully short due to western erucentric mindset and capitalist greed which has exploited labor (particularly African American) for the enrichment of a few wealthy white men who have gamed the system.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.com