tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post7581442448752632599..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: Liberalism Is SickAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger123125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-17775747114540992882012-06-09T00:03:26.575-04:002012-06-09T00:03:26.575-04:00Sort of. A nondisclosure or confidentiality agree...Sort of. A nondisclosure or confidentiality agreement is an agreement to something secret, i.e. to not reveal it except where the agreement allows (you can carve out any exceptions you want). The punishment for violating that is monetary damages and usually some loss of rights, e.g. license rights.<br /><br />A gag order (or TRO/injunction) is a legal order issued by the court which provides that the parties may not discuss a certain thing with anyone except themselves and their attorney. Violation of that order is a criminal matter and the punishment is jail time, plus sometimes damages.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-38823633677586453362012-06-08T23:48:35.837-04:002012-06-08T23:48:35.837-04:00That's where being a lawyer comes in handy bec...That's where being a lawyer comes in handy because I know what's really going on. And yes, it sounds like this judge is probably a Family Court guy who got elevated and missed the point that this was a free speech issue and not a matter of squabbling couples. It sounds like he applied the wrong legal standard and that should make this a slam dunk on appeal -- unless there's something else we don't know about going on.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-47573256912769685472012-06-08T23:39:46.429-04:002012-06-08T23:39:46.429-04:00BTW, I was under the impression that a gag order w...BTW, I was under the impression that a gag order was something akin to a nondisclosure agreement, except by force.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-35644343094020199002012-06-08T23:38:40.766-04:002012-06-08T23:38:40.766-04:00Okay, that makes more sense than what I was readin...Okay, that makes more sense than what I was reading elsewhere. And from listening to the audio, it certainly sounds like the judge is treating these two like neighbors who can't get along.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-4643512550644321252012-06-08T22:38:04.611-04:002012-06-08T22:38:04.611-04:00I'm not sure there's a real difference. B...I'm not sure there's a real difference. Before I say why, however, let me point out that different places use different words and this could all be a local rule of some sort. But generally, there is no difference between a gag order or "peace order" -- they all fall under the category of "temporary restraining order" or its longer-term cousin the "injunction".<br /><br />A TRO/injunction is used to prevent one person from harming another through their conduct or speech and can be tailored to fit any circumstance, e.g. requiring physical separation, the prevention of speech, return of property, etc. It's done under threat of imprisonment.<br /><br />To get one of those, you need to show that the person is violating the law, that allowing them to continue will harm you, and that the harm they are doing can't be cured by the award of money damages. A good example would be lying about somebody being a child molester.<br /><br />But this is where the judge is 100% wrong. There is no way Kimberlin can show that Walker is breaking the law because he is protected by the First Amendment and there is no way Kimberlin can show that he is being hurt in ways which can't be cured with money. So he never should have issued it.<br /><br />It sounds like this judge confused himself and saw this more like the kinds of TROs issued in domestic cases where the court tells people who are fighting to stop messing with each other and stay away from each other.<br /><br />All in all, this should be an easy appeal, because the judge has proven himself to be an idiot. In fact, Walker should be able to make an expedited appeal, often within 24 hours, and get the order stayed -- but I can't say for certain as I don't know their local rules.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-73718350152198157062012-06-08T22:18:45.656-04:002012-06-08T22:18:45.656-04:00I think Kimberlin went for a peace order because a...I think Kimberlin went for a peace order because a gag order probably wouldn't apply. To my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) a gag order applies to info that is secret in some way. Walker seems to be blogging about Kimberlin's very public actions and past.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-55830290731807097662012-06-08T20:53:25.439-04:002012-06-08T20:53:25.439-04:00tryanmax, It wouldn't surprise me. Like I sai...tryanmax, It wouldn't surprise me. Like I said, a lot of judges aren't all that bright, despite what people think.<br /><br />In this case, I guess it would depend on what he meant by contact. Normally contact means to make a directed attempt to communicate. A blog would not qualify as that. But if he really means a gag order of some sort, then this would make more sense. Though it's very poorly done. It sounds like the judge is just an idiot, frankly. And I expect Walker could get this overturned almost immediately with an appeal.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89375495943958128552012-06-08T20:17:37.909-04:002012-06-08T20:17:37.909-04:00Oh, and T-Rav, drop some knowledge on us!Oh, and T-Rav, drop some knowledge on us!tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-46813585416733363172012-06-08T20:17:09.246-04:002012-06-08T20:17:09.246-04:00Andrew, the full transcript paints a clearer pictu...Andrew, the full transcript paints a clearer picture. There is definitely an attempt at humor there, but it seems designed to cover for shortcomings in his knowledge. IMO, a blog doesn't constitute contact any more than a publicly posted flyer. But I don't know what position the courts have taken. <br /><br />I wouldn't say that the judge is taking Kimberlin's side as some of the blogs I've been reading this evening assert. But from the audio, I'd say Kimberlin is expert at playing the victim and the judge bought it.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-16307064076048459902012-06-08T19:14:03.312-04:002012-06-08T19:14:03.312-04:00tryanmax, It sounds like an easy appeal. Sadly, t...tryanmax, It sounds like an easy appeal. Sadly, there are a lot of stupid judges out there.<br /><br />I hadn't heard about Walker, but I understand that Kimberlin has been suing lots of people and is believe to be behind the SWATing incidents. I guess he's also got some connection to Obama or Bill Ayers (haven't kept up with it) -- T-Rav knows more.<br /><br />When he defines any any other means, he's just trying to be funny. I wouldn't say he doesn't get the internet from that, though it is likely he actually doesn't get the internet.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-90888979422745457582012-06-08T18:09:21.387-04:002012-06-08T18:09:21.387-04:00I just learned about it today, so forgive me if an...I just learned about it today, so forgive me if anything is inaccurate. <br /><br />Kimberlin, a.k.a. The Speedway Bomber, has a peace order against a blogger named Aaron Walker in regards to posts the latter has made on his blog concerning the former. I’m not sure what Walker’s blogging about Kimberlin entails, but in his hearing (audio of which is abundantly available online) he cites <i>Brandenburg v. Ohio</i> which Judge Vaughey can be heard dismissing in favor of the “Vaughey Standard.” In other words, he’s clearly not basing his rejection on standards of applicability.<br /><br />There is also a clear case of eldertech in which the judge doesn’t appear all too internet savvy. His order is that “The Respondent shall not contact the person in person, by telephone, in writing or any other means.” He then goes on to define “any other means” as “putting it on a blog, a Tweet, a megaphone, a smoke signal… sonar, radar, laser, nothing.” Either that or the judge does not know what “contact” is. <br /><br />But the crux is that this Kimberlin guy has successfully used the courts to silence a blogger and, whether he is politically affiliated or not--and there is actually good reason to think he is not--I could see the left adopting his tactics of legal intimidation to silence other bloggers they don’t care for.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-9063038610900051442012-06-08T17:20:08.786-04:002012-06-08T17:20:08.786-04:00I'm not familiar with that (or at least I don&...I'm not familiar with that (or at least I don't think so). I know Kimberlin is the guy they think is behind the SWATing. He's apparently got a record of being a domestic terrorist and he's tried to sue every right-wing blogger who mentions him.<br /><br />What's the Walker thing?AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-76686247604093896292012-06-08T17:16:24.256-04:002012-06-08T17:16:24.256-04:00Say, are you aware at all of this Kimberlin v. Wal...Say, are you aware at all of this <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=kimberlin+v+walker" rel="nofollow">Kimberlin v. Walker</a> thing? If so, any thoughts?tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-11472182186273763952012-06-08T16:30:24.250-04:002012-06-08T16:30:24.250-04:00wahsatchmo, That's how liberals think. They ch...wahsatchmo, That's how liberals think. They cherry pick facts and only trust sources who confirm what they want to believe, then they construct arguments without once worrying about consistency.<br /><br />It's all about conforming the universe to what the liberal wants to believe, not making the liberals understand what is real. I've seen this time and again from the left.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-90924092376239189622012-06-08T15:31:06.747-04:002012-06-08T15:31:06.747-04:00As another example of the insanity of liberalism, ...As another example of the insanity of liberalism, I stumbled across a piece written by a liberal (no point in linking it) that attempted to deconstruct the "myth" that Obama is the worst president since Carter. After pointing out that "worst" is a subjective evaluation, the author ignored the entirety of Obama's domestic policy, foreign policy, and scandals, as well as unemployment rates, inflation rates, GDP, (same for Carter). He then used the metric of Presidential approval ratings. So using that metric, Obama was middle of the road and Carter wasn't so bad after all. Guess who he tried to argue was the worst? GWB, of course. But somewhat surprisingly, he then tried to argue Reagan was also worse than Obama, because of his high spending and the Iran-contra affair.<br /><br />Huh. Reagan, who reversed the horrible stagflation and unemployment amassed under Carter, who won the cold war against the Soviets, who solidified our relationships with our allies, projected an image of strength to offset the weakness of Carter's foreign policy blunders, and reversed then inept energy policies of Carter, is bad because he spent a lot and had a scandal under his administration (for which people were actually tried and went to jail). <br /><br />Somehow, he is worse than Obama, who has presided over the highest unemployment rates since Carter, has reintroduced us to stagflation, who has several scandals under his Administration (at least one of which resulted in the deaths of innocents), has spent more than any other President in history, has given more to his cronies than any other administration, has started as many wars as GWB (one of which without the approval of Congress) and kills civilians with drones without trial. His DOJ stonewalls, he sues states for passing laws, he usurps the rights of creditors in bankruptcy, he funnels untold dollars to banks to backstop their heedless risk-taking, and makes special concessions to the richest investment banks in the world, yet Reagan is apparently worse.<br /><br />It takes a special brain to think like this.wahsatchmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15990668466361072408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-23332811614216507692012-06-08T15:07:56.925-04:002012-06-08T15:07:56.925-04:00wahstachmo, I think this...
The common goal among...wahstachmo, I think this...<br /><br /><i>The common goal among these groups is the promote the supremacy of the state over the individual to remove individual responsibility and independence.</i><br /><br />... is absolutely right. That describes liberalism perfectly.<br /><br />I also think you're right that liberals are basically looking to create a special class of people (them) who will rule over everyone else. That's why their rhetoric is so nasty and condescending because they think the people resisting them are beneath them.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-8668752979281097822012-06-08T14:20:28.470-04:002012-06-08T14:20:28.470-04:00Great post and discussion. Modern liberalism cert...Great post and discussion. Modern liberalism certainly has degenerated from its philosophical roots, regardless of whether those roots were originally reasonable or not. At its core, liberalism seeks to promote one class above all others (the liberal elites) and to do so it must suppress the rights and liberty of the masses. Liberalism does this in a variety of ways: by providing special privileges or rights to garner support from selected constituencies, by creating dependency on government programs, by reducing the import of family and religion to elevate the influence of the state, and so on.<br /><br />This is why liberals consist of so many disparate groups that normally oppose each other: environmentalists versus unions, minorities versus gays, feminists versus pornographers, etc. The common goal among these groups is the promote the supremacy of the state over the individual to remove individual responsibility and independence. In their views, individuals are not born with certain inalienable rights, the state is the provider of rights.<br /><br />Since conservatism seeks to reduce the presence and effect of government, liberalism sees this as interference with the special rights that the state can grant them. So when the rise in the unchecked power of the state is limited by conservatives, liberals react with disproportionate anger, violence, and insanity. It's why every argument with a liberal ends with them making ad hominem attacks, talking in non sequiturs, fabricating statistics, or accusations of racism.wahsatchmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15990668466361072408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-50432847938672018162012-06-08T13:49:09.342-04:002012-06-08T13:49:09.342-04:00tryanmax, Yeah, they've definitely got us beat...tryanmax, Yeah, they've definitely got us beat in both intelligence and eloquence.*<br /><br /><br /><i>* For any liberal trolls who happen by, that means "smarts and speaking ability."</i>AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-16038946392364173352012-06-08T13:47:45.660-04:002012-06-08T13:47:45.660-04:00T-Rav, Yeah, that would have turned out badly. I ...T-Rav, Yeah, that would have turned out badly. I was outside enough to know that getting whacked in the head was not a good idea. These things made huge dents in metal all over town.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-4770409411142901002012-06-08T12:51:44.588-04:002012-06-08T12:51:44.588-04:00rlaWTX, Yeah, just look at us dummy conservatives!...rlaWTX, Yeah, just look at us dummy conservatives! We could never come with thoughts as clever and nuanced as "cave frog lookin' ß!+¢# @$$ pig @$$ И!88@"tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-71483404444230720662012-06-08T12:12:10.332-04:002012-06-08T12:12:10.332-04:00Hmm. Grilling usually attracts lightning and torre...Hmm. Grilling usually attracts lightning and torrential rain, at least for us. You should have just taken advantage of the hail and practiced your golf swing--wait, that might have turned out badly. ;-)T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-90187418590817537512012-06-08T12:01:41.943-04:002012-06-08T12:01:41.943-04:00rlaWTX, It absolutely did. We started with jokes ...rlaWTX, It absolutely did. We started with jokes and ended up with philosophy! Yikes. But like you, that's one of the many things I love about this place! :)<br /><br />Colorado does get hail around this time of year, but not usually anything like these. My lawn literally was covered in golfball-sized ice last night (it was marble size the other nigh). And no, I didn't try grilling because the clouds made me suspicious. I will try again tonight however, so you may never hear from me again! :(AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-21607054593339165062012-06-08T11:53:33.477-04:002012-06-08T11:53:33.477-04:00WOW - this turned into quite the intellectual exer...WOW - this turned into quite the intellectual exercise! Which is one of the many things I love about Commentarama!!! Excellent discussion and points all around.<br /><br />Andrew, did you try grilling again? Is that what attracted the hellish hail? Or are you just lucky that way?rlaWTXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09319344164726195144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-72058153549200351242012-06-08T11:25:59.336-04:002012-06-08T11:25:59.336-04:00Thanks Patti! :)Thanks Patti! :)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-9106007829734186432012-06-08T11:23:27.798-04:002012-06-08T11:23:27.798-04:00fantastic post. i'll link it next week!fantastic post. i'll link it next week!Notawonkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388997298014397980noreply@blogger.com