tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post8379085111815682600..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: The NangotiatorAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-48321271198235679362010-03-16T23:51:14.545-04:002010-03-16T23:51:14.545-04:00Stan, she it totally the gift that keeps on giving...Stan, she it totally the gift that keeps on giving.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-54214509220176262122010-03-16T14:50:42.551-04:002010-03-16T14:50:42.551-04:00San Fran Nan, the gift that keeps on giving. I too...San Fran Nan, the gift that keeps on giving. I too have been in many negotiations and the moment the other side knows you don’t have the cards you claim, you’ve lost. Healthcare is a fraud, and the customer (the American people) have figured it out, no sale. <br /><br />But these are devout statist, and I still believe we are going to get something, healthcare is the ultimate power, their Holy Grail as has been said. If they put this piece of feces through using Budget Reconciliation, it can damn well be taken out using the same process. Pay back’s a bitch!StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-28695603108357681312010-03-16T13:40:28.325-04:002010-03-16T13:40:28.325-04:00Lawhawk, Is that why Obama was bowing? I knew the...Lawhawk, Is that why Obama was bowing? I knew there had to be reason. LOL!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-10693908250472703902010-03-16T13:14:34.789-04:002010-03-16T13:14:34.789-04:00Andrew: That's not why Obama met with Kucinic...Andrew: That's not why Obama met with Kucinich. They spent the day discussing their alien encounters. Kucinich told about seeing little green men, and Obama told about bowing to Ming the Merciless, Emperor of the Universe.<br /><br />I agree that Obama has alienated both his left and right flanks. The blue dogs just seem to be a little better at articulating their specific objections, where the left is left simply moaning that socialism isn't coming fast enough.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-52857793703440407452010-03-16T13:02:54.322-04:002010-03-16T13:02:54.322-04:00Lawhawk, That was a funny ruling by their parliame...Lawhawk, That was a funny ruling by their parliamentarian. It certainly throws a monkey wrench into the Slaughter plan. But it sounds like Pelosi might try it anyways. She’s just crazy enough to think it will work.<br /><br />The ones who are going to be really upset by this are the leftists like Kucinich, not the moderates. The moderates are fine with the Senate bill (except for the abortion issue). It's the leftists that are upset by the "moderate" Senate bill. They're the ones who need to believe that the Senate will actually go back and do a reconciliation to get them the things they're losing -- which won't and can't happen. That’s why Obama spent the day with Kucinich yesterday.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-28331730321421920612010-03-16T12:58:04.260-04:002010-03-16T12:58:04.260-04:00CrisD, The Congress has the power to establish its...CrisD, The Congress has the power to establish its own rules and procedures -- no matter how strange. The Supreme Court has said this several times. So the Supreme Court is highly unlikely to even hear a case about the manner in which the Congress passed something, much less to strike the law down. They'll look at the substance of the law, but not how it was handled procedurally by the Congress (the same is not true for how the Executive implements it, where the Court does play an active role).<br /><br />So basically, I think the Court would stay out of it.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-28341733901875307562010-03-16T12:57:00.533-04:002010-03-16T12:57:00.533-04:00Tx. Lawhawk.
Also went to Red State blog and read ...Tx. Lawhawk.<br />Also went to Red State blog and read a great post on it by "E Pluribus Unum"CrisDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-19405104932663698122010-03-16T12:51:28.160-04:002010-03-16T12:51:28.160-04:00Andrew: I have a few random thoughts about Pelosi...Andrew: I have a few random thoughts about Pelosi, Reid and negoshatation.<br /><br />As for the Slaughter Solution--we lawyers ought to be hanged in the public square for inventing the concept of "deeming" something that is not true to be true. Deeming a fact to exist <i>when it is agreeable to both sides and serves the purpose of reaching a common goal</i> smooths the way for solutions. Deeming a thing to be true when it serves the purposes of only one side creates problems in the future that are far worse than the problem the deeming was originally designed to solve.<br /><br />Pelosi and the gang have forgotten a major rule of diplomacy and negotiation: Never back your opponent into a position from which he cannot retreat and from which he cannot advance without all-out attack.<br /><br />The Parliamentarian has ruled that if the Slaughter Solution is invoked at all, it must be without further negotiations or modifications of the Senate bill. And it must be sent to the President for signature before "fixing" it can even begin ("reconciliation"). That leaves her with Democrats who know full well that once that bill is signed into law, the left will have no incentive to take care of the objections that the House Democrats have to the Senate version. Obama will be off to bow and scrape to some more Asian dictators, and the moderate Democrats will be left to explain to their constituents why they voted for this abomination (as you mentioned, Stupak has figured this one out).LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-47595382682262494522010-03-16T12:47:40.759-04:002010-03-16T12:47:40.759-04:00Am sorry. I know she is "negotiating" bu...Am sorry. I know she is "negotiating" but I believe she is bribing the maybes, etc. They are using the "Slaughter Solution" by deeming bill passed instead of passing it. That is why I say she is not really negotiating. But I take your points, believe me.<br /><br />I am suggesting that some say that the "Slaughter Solution" is unconstitional in this case and asking if there could be legal redress.CrisDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-49921909914169985992010-03-16T12:42:23.048-04:002010-03-16T12:42:23.048-04:00CrisD, She actually is negotiating behind the scen...CrisD, She actually is negotiating behind the scenes with the NOs and the wavering YES votes.<br /><br />Which Supreme Court appeal? I'm a bit out of the loop at the moment working on a project.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-29909844660524434282010-03-16T12:15:37.882-04:002010-03-16T12:15:37.882-04:00She is really not "negotiating" is in th...She is really not "negotiating" is in the true sense of the word.<br /><br />Patti, Byron York's pithy response to that post was "Who's door is she kicking in anyway?"<br />Tx. For the link.<br /><br />Andrew, what about Supreme Court appeal (sorry, if you've written on it as I am late to the party)CrisDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-61612513694728528052010-03-16T11:36:05.027-04:002010-03-16T11:36:05.027-04:00and now there's this gem: http://www.washingto...and now there's this gem: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Pelosi-Once-we-kick-through-this-door-more-reform-will-follow-87741467.html<br /><br />plainly telling us their plan.pattihttp://www.notawonk.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-32351644970667878912010-03-16T11:18:38.142-04:002010-03-16T11:18:38.142-04:00Patti, That's the other side of the coin, not ...Patti, That's the other side of the coin, not only is she demoralizing the very people she needs to pull to her side, but she's completely agitating people like us who would never agree with her and who she should be trying to either (1) demoralize or (2) just keep us from paying attention. But she just can't stop herself. That's a huge mistake.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-71757074530860198772010-03-16T11:13:19.488-04:002010-03-16T11:13:19.488-04:00Writer X, She has really done just about everythin...Writer X, She has really done just about everything wrong. She inspired the other side, demoralized her own, and created a series of bills that simply can't be passed. And the whole time, she's been basking in the accolades of being a great leader. None of that is consistent with good or effective leadership.<br /><br />But that's good for us. If she had been the least bit rational, we could have been in serious trouble after the last election. But Pelosi really saved our rear ends. We should send her a thank you card.<br /><br />And you're right about the Democratic members, they're terrified all over the country. They know what's coming -- especially after the town hall disasters, after far left Massachusetts voted Republican and after Nelson went home and got jeered at a restaurant. They are no living fear.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-4265182576964266432010-03-16T11:07:17.750-04:002010-03-16T11:07:17.750-04:00the daily bombardment of pelosi's knives-in-ou...the daily bombardment of pelosi's knives-in-our-backs sickens me. everyday she/they think of new skeevy ways to screw us. scares the hell out of me to think where this might end.pattihttp://www.notawonk.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-26809432285097133692010-03-16T10:41:46.132-04:002010-03-16T10:41:46.132-04:00I can't see anything that this lady has done r...I can't see anything that this lady has done right in terms of negotiations. She's a textbook example of what not to do. Now she just looks desperate. Unfortunately, she's bad enough to still be dangerous. She's got the Democratic representatives in my state like Giffords, Mitchell, and Kirkpatrick afraid to answer their phones or even emerge from their offices.Writer Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16505411188186283813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-79577421186551524052010-03-16T10:32:08.591-04:002010-03-16T10:32:08.591-04:00True Bev. This failure has arrogance written all ...True Bev. This failure has arrogance written all over it. They assumed that they could do anything they wanted and everyone would just fall in line, and that has been their undoing. Obama failed by detaching himself, Pelosi failed by being insane and trying to get everything she wanted by force, and Reid failed by following Pelosi's lead even though he should have known the Senate is a different animal than the House (something Pelosi should have accounted for herself as well).<br /><br />And you're right about the Slaughter Rule, they really think the public will accept the distinction, which just goes to show how insane she really is. That's like saying, I fired the gun, but the bullett did the actual killing. No one's going to buy that. In fact, it sounds cowardly and dishonest, and like an attempt to evade responsibility. So you just ended up adding that to the reasons to vote against these people.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-51362782597462003592010-03-16T10:27:34.668-04:002010-03-16T10:27:34.668-04:00Jed, If she succeeds, and right now it still looks...Jed, If she succeeds, and right now it still looks like she won't, it will be entirely despite her best efforts. It will be, because as you say, Obama has the world's biggest bully pulpit and that carries a lot of weight.<br /><br />It will also be pure fear, in that the left is already announcing plans to run third party challengers against NO voters.<br /><br />Right now, I'd say that she's actually the biggest reason this hasn't happened.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-32175574055198858502010-03-16T10:26:41.023-04:002010-03-16T10:26:41.023-04:00The only thing that Three-headed Hydra - Obamapelo...The only thing that Three-headed Hydra - Obamapelosireid - has proved to be the truth is how arrogant it is...they are? <br /><br />And Pelosi really believes that incumbant Democrats will be able to go back to their constituents and say with a straight face that they did not vote for the bill because of the Slaughter Rule.BevfromNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-50590445762845958702010-03-16T10:01:03.348-04:002010-03-16T10:01:03.348-04:00good post, Andrew. I also have done more than my f...good post, Andrew. I also have done more than my fair share of negotiations over the years and have attended seminars by some of the best in the business. Your assertions are all on point. My only concern is, given the extraordinary power of the presidency, this wicked witch of the west may end up suceeding in spite of herself.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.com