tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post8506506487746939615..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: What Makes Us Like Characters?AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-18479387575101992862010-10-07T11:33:22.763-04:002010-10-07T11:33:22.763-04:00Mike, That's hilarious! When the Onion is on,...Mike, That's hilarious! When the Onion is on, they are really on. One of my favorites they did was an article on whether or not Pittsburgh was prepared for a zombie attack!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-77878972049223765392010-10-07T10:39:42.680-04:002010-10-07T10:39:42.680-04:00In the Onion today, historians apologize for fabri...In the Onion today, historians apologize for fabricating Ancient Greece:<br /><br />"One night someone made a joke about just taking all these ideas, lumping them together, and saying the Greeks had done it all 2,000 years ago," Haddlebury said. "One thing led to another, and before you know it, we're coming up with everything from the golden ratio to the Iliad."<br /><br />http://www.theonion.com/articles/historians-admit-to-inventing-ancient-greeks,18209/?mobile=falseMike K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17216987126441598720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-1746024013973024462010-10-06T20:36:53.172-04:002010-10-06T20:36:53.172-04:00Alright Mike, I'll be here tomorrow if you hav...Alright Mike, I'll be here tomorrow if you have more thoughts! :-)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-37270316090202873582010-10-06T20:25:57.950-04:002010-10-06T20:25:57.950-04:00I'll have to sleep on it, Andrew!I'll have to sleep on it, Andrew!Mike K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17216987126441598720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-59656083679982419522010-10-06T20:01:18.305-04:002010-10-06T20:01:18.305-04:00Mike, That's because the Greeks didn't hav...Mike, That's because the Greeks didn't have television, so they had nothing to do but sit around and come up with ideas. . . that and fend off a few Persians. ;-)<br /><br />I also think we are converging on something here. It sounds like comedy is about poking fun at our faults and giving us the uplifting feeling of overcoming those flaws (often in very ridiculous ways). By comparison, drama is about showing us the kinds of people we strive to be.<br /><br />Sound good?AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-36836422037717380262010-10-06T19:52:00.159-04:002010-10-06T19:52:00.159-04:00Andrew, we're cross-posting but we seem to be ...Andrew, we're cross-posting but we seem to be converging upon something.<br /><br />How come every time I have a good idea, some Greek already thought of it?Mike K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17216987126441598720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-67933479696184154812010-10-06T19:48:35.874-04:002010-10-06T19:48:35.874-04:00It just struck me that the three characters I ment...It just struck me that the three characters I mentioned have one thing in common: they all tell ridiculous lies. And a very specific kind of lie---one that makes him seem better than he is. Smarter, more competent, or more accomplished.<br /><br />So you could argue that comedy is just showing us the other side of drama. Dramatic characters show us who we'd like to be, and comedic characters remind us how far we all are from that ideal.Mike K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17216987126441598720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-71084996521009551472010-10-06T19:42:37.117-04:002010-10-06T19:42:37.117-04:00Mike, I don't mean "look down upon" ...Mike, I don't mean "look down upon" in the disapproval sense, but "look down upon" in the sense of someone we can look at and say, "hey, that guy's a lot worse than I am!" Sympathetic rather than pathetic.<br /><br />So maybe you're right that it's about seeing someone with our flaws (though massively exaggerated) succeed? Maybe that's the draw to comedy -- that we leave the movie/book feeling like "that guy had all my problems and he pulled it off, so can I!"?<br /><br />Possibly supporting this, the Greeks used to say that drama is about bringing a great man low, and comedy is about bringing a low man to greatness. It's an interesting thought and it seems to be true.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-25912055266574350802010-10-06T19:37:22.198-04:002010-10-06T19:37:22.198-04:00rlaWTX, I think there is something to this (though...rlaWTX, I think there is something to this (though, as Mike pointed out, comedies appear to be different). And I think your mention of Laura Croft is a good one. She's a very compelling character precisely because she is so ultra-competent. She's one of those characters like Superman or James Bond who can basically do anything.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-45377324762974218262010-10-06T19:34:50.349-04:002010-10-06T19:34:50.349-04:00Scott, I thought that was a great movie -- very fu...Scott, I thought that was a great movie -- very funny. I haven't seen the commentary, but it's an interesting thought. . . though I don't know that I agree. George Kostanza was horrible at his job, but people liked him, as are a lot of other very likable characters.<br /><br />One thing is for sure, this is an interesting issue that requires some thought. :-)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-60714508800634436722010-10-06T19:32:28.327-04:002010-10-06T19:32:28.327-04:00Andrew, I wouldn't put it exactly that way, be...Andrew, I wouldn't put it exactly that way, because looking down on someone is very different from liking him.<br /><br />How about this? In drama, we like characters whose virtues we admire. In comedy, we like characters whose flaws we share.Mike K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17216987126441598720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-27560469219098653142010-10-06T19:26:19.660-04:002010-10-06T19:26:19.660-04:00there is commentary on Attribution Theory in this ...there is commentary on Attribution Theory in this somewhere, but it's been a long day - so I'm not even gonna try...<br /><br />personally I think there is something to your idea of wanting to be them... <br />[I'm not sure why this one popped into my head, but...] I'd be Lara Croft in a heartbeat - gorgeous, kick-ass, tough, gets another moment with her dad, and saves the world! (although, I can't come up with another actress that could take Jolie's place - but that could be a comment on today's actresses and not the role)rlaWTXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09319344164726195144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-19345925227694924572010-10-06T19:22:32.821-04:002010-10-06T19:22:32.821-04:00Lawhawk, I hate to admit it, but I don't know ...Lawhawk, I hate to admit it, but I don't know that character. I'm not a fan of the late night guys.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-63204498235503662962010-10-06T19:21:56.905-04:002010-10-06T19:21:56.905-04:00Mike, that may be true. It seems that with comedy...Mike, that may be true. It seems that with comedy characters, we want someone we can look down upon, whereas with other stories we generally want someone we can look up to.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-64747395160066905902010-10-06T19:08:10.517-04:002010-10-06T19:08:10.517-04:00In the audio commentary for Used Cars (which is fu...In the audio commentary for Used Cars (which is funnier than the film itself and most comedies today), director Robert Zemeckis states an old Hitchcock premise: "Audiences will love a character if he's good at his job."<br /><br />And I agree with Mike re: George Costanza (or any Seinfeld character).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-11967644037750791522010-10-06T18:51:23.785-04:002010-10-06T18:51:23.785-04:00Andrew: You're absolutely right. My favorite...Andrew: You're absolutely right. My favorite TV character of all time was Jay Leno's commercial: "Larry the Lawyer." I wonder why.<br /><br />My favorite testimonial to him was Patty Hearst. "F. Lee Bailey's OK, but the next time I'm on trial for bank robbery and terrorist activity, I'm hiring Larry the Lawyer."LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-65682782168372106982010-10-06T17:58:49.839-04:002010-10-06T17:58:49.839-04:00Bev, I also agree on the tea party observation. W...Bev, I also agree on the tea party observation. What's fascinating (and what actually gives me a lot of faith in the tea party people) is that they seem to be real people who are running for office rather than crafted images being sold to the voters.<br /><br />I know better than this, but I truly hope that the public is done with the image over substance people, and that we get back to listening to what people believe and what they want to do rather than how well their image is managed by their handlers.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-48238775412547921332010-10-06T17:57:49.270-04:002010-10-06T17:57:49.270-04:00It must have to do with their ability to evoke pit...It must have to do with their ability to evoke pity.Mike K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17216987126441598720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-27421341133994710722010-10-06T17:56:59.993-04:002010-10-06T17:56:59.993-04:00Bev, I agree entirely about Obama. I don't re...Bev, I agree entirely about Obama. I don't really care where he was born as that issue is gone -- no on is going to do anything about it. So it's not relevant and we shouldn't waste time on it. But, it is truly fascinating that we don't even know where he was really born! In fact, we know nothing. We don't know anything about his academic performance, we know he lied about how (when) he met Michelle, we don't know what he did for a living before winning a Senate seat, we don't know his religious beliefs (remember that he disavowed listening to Rev. Wright), we don't even know what views he holds.<br /><br />In fact, we know know nothing about him except the image that David Axelrod crafted for us, and the few unguarded moments that have snuck out to tell us that the image is fake. In fact, the things we've seen in those moments run completely counter to the image that is being sold of a "brilliant, good looking, 'young' guy, with a lot of ideas and dreams who wants to change the world."<br /><br />If you think about it, this actually sounds a lot like something you would see in the personal ads. All we need to add is "likes long walks at beach and reading from teleprompter" and "looking for single country to rule."<br /><br />Interesting.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-17104762540978083092010-10-06T17:46:47.777-04:002010-10-06T17:46:47.777-04:00Mike, Excellent point! I hadn't thought about...Mike, Excellent point! I hadn't thought about comedy, but those characters do seem different. In fact, I would say off the top of my head that comedy characters are best liked when they are harmless and inept.<br /><br />I'm going to have to think about this, I wonder why comedy would be different? Any ideas?AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-39508113301931674672010-10-06T17:42:42.600-04:002010-10-06T17:42:42.600-04:00I think politicians guard their image and do creat...I think politicians guard their image and do create a persona that can appear likeable. Obama is the perfect example of a manufactured image. Look what we are getting now. He is appearing in rolled up shirtsleeves at backyard barbecues to give the image that he is connecting with the Everyman. <br /><br />However, we have seen no verifiable proof through any means - transcripts, motions, flyers, letters, emails or tweets to prove that he is who he says he is or has actually put pen to paper himself. (We know he can read because he uses that teleprompter) And I am not a birther, but we do not even have a verifiable birth certificate. We only know from what we are told, the images that are produced daily, and what was in two books that may or may not have been written by him. <br /><br />Contrast that with the "Tea Party" candidates who by all accounts are real people and not images. They say and do things that are not politically guarded. Because of that, they can appear to be crazy. And they are being attacked for their lack of guarded-ness. Every foible is jumped on to drown out their message.<br /><br />It makes for great theatre.BevfromNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-42291085357693073472010-10-06T17:39:14.180-04:002010-10-06T17:39:14.180-04:00This theory doesn't work for comedy, though.
...This theory doesn't work for comedy, though.<br /><br />I like George Costanza, Basil Fawlty, and Ralph Kramden, but I can't think of a single trait any of them have that I would want to emulate.Mike K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17216987126441598720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-27207590234547508012010-10-06T17:20:00.383-04:002010-10-06T17:20:00.383-04:00Bev, Are you talking about creating one or just se...Bev, Are you talking about creating one or just selling the image? In either event, you're right.<br /><br />In fact, that only raises the question of how careful we should be in accepting the image these people portray. For example, I've seen no evidence that Obama is smart.... but all the Democrats and everyone in the media not only calls him smart, they call him "brilliant." That's clearly them trying to craft an image.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-85339837831738945982010-10-06T17:16:34.858-04:002010-10-06T17:16:34.858-04:00It's very useful for creating likeable politic...It's very useful for creating likeable politicians and demonizing them too.BevfromNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-40364116429945040702010-10-06T17:09:23.554-04:002010-10-06T17:09:23.554-04:00Ed, I think it would definitely be useful for that...Ed, I think it would definitely be useful for that. It would probably be very helpful when writing characters to think in terms of "traits" rather than just plot points if you want to make sure that some come across as likable and others not. It's probably also a good antidote for the way Hollywood tries to make characters likable/dislikable by having them do something good or evil at some point to establish the character. In other words, rather than having the bad guy kick a puppy, just give him more annoying traits.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com