tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post8668671455231911537..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: Film Friday: Waiting for Superman (2010)AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-49166776194034598202011-02-28T16:45:06.282-05:002011-02-28T16:45:06.282-05:00Thank Ben! And you're welcome.
On Stossel an...Thank Ben! And you're welcome.<br /><br />On Stossel and Reihl, I suspect that either they didn't look too deeply at the movie, or they liked the fact that it does attack unions. Even though the attack is super shallow, it is at least a first that liberals would criticize the unions and suggest that they need to stop protecting bad teachers. In fact, that's a monumental shift for a liberal. So maybe they decided that 10% is better than nothing ever?<br /><br />In any event, it's too bad this was the extent of the criticism by Guggenheim. He could have really achieve something if he'd tried to be open and honest about what he found.<br /><br />On your ideas, I agree. I think the key is to yank all the politics out of education and focus on teaching facts, basic skills and the ability to reason. Leave the politics for college or beyond education.<br /><br />And you're right about the stupid questions. I used to teach legal writing and I got some doozies.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-79210609377884628642011-02-28T16:22:39.143-05:002011-02-28T16:22:39.143-05:00Thanks for the superb review, Andrew!
I was suspi...Thanks for the superb review, Andrew!<br /><br />I was suspicious about this "documentary" when I discovered who did it, and that Bill Gates liked it.<br /><br />I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the teacher's unions came out vehemently against it, even though, as you say, this wasn't an attack on the unions and basically only suggested that bad teachers should be easier to fire.<br />Apparently, the unions don't believe there is such a thing as bad teachers.<br /><br />I am very surprised that any conservatives supported Waiting For Superman.<br />Recently I read that John Stossel and Dan Riehl at Big Hollywood thought this deserved an Oscar nod.<br />These are two folks I usually agree with so I'm left wondering WTH? <br />Did they watch this thing?<br /><br />Anyways, too bad Guggenheim wimped out or is too stupid to think rationally. Then again, he did make Inconvenient "Truth" so I weasn't expecting an epiphany of truth on his part.<br /><br />I pretty much agree with all the various ways everyone suggested we could make our education system better.<br /><br />One fundamental thing I would change is to get rid of "Social Studies" and bring back History and a lot more of it.<br />Particularly American History.<br /><br />Critical and independent thinking should also be stressed in all grades.<br /><br />Also, get rid of this "competition is bad" idea, deep six all this "self esteem" garbage, and help kids learn about self confidence instead...with a stout dose of humble pie on the side.<br /><br />Kids should be prepared for reality not la la land when they graduate from high school.<br />And yes, there is such a thing as stupid questions.<br />I know. I was a Navy instructor for a few years.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-90076359144071817432011-02-25T22:57:36.109-05:002011-02-25T22:57:36.109-05:00T_Rav, We never got time off for tests. When we h...T_Rav, We never got time off for tests. When we hit 7th grade we took the Iowa Basic Achievement Test, and I think that's all we had to take. Anyone going to college also had to take the SAT and/or the ACT. But as a class, we never took anything else.<br /><br />The problem with getting rid of standardized tests is how do you know what the kids have learned? I'm talking about a very basic test -- math, reading, writing. And maybe the thing to do is to do it like a random drug test -- on some day known only to state regulators, they show up with the test and everyone takes it? Just a thought. That should prevent people from teaching to the test. But that's probably a topic for a longer debate.<br /><br /><br />We are probably talking about the same thing business-wise. I mean that each school would become it's own business-like entity, not that they would all be sold to some national outfit. They would basically all be independent, but state owned. Then parents could send their kids anywhere in town. That way the schools would compete to attract local students, i.e. meaning they need to satisfy local parents. But the schools wouldn't be moved, students wouldn't be shipped out of state or out of town, and these wouldn't become owned by large companies. You could even avoid the "business" word entirely if you wanted and just say that each school is now it's own "state-owned independent academy."<br /><br />I've heard nothing good about NCLB. But I do like the idea of finally testing and figuring out what the problems really are. Until the testing began under that law, people really didn't know how bad kids were doing or how bad schools were doing.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-77490431445633084652011-02-25T22:43:35.223-05:002011-02-25T22:43:35.223-05:00Andrew, I didn't mean privatize in that way. I...Andrew, I didn't mean privatize in that way. I have no doubt it would result in a much better use of resources and better accountability in general, and would certainly be superior to the existing system. In this case, I gave "business" a negative connotation in the sense that it might, for that reason, be less tethered to the community. My maxim for education is, "Localize, localize, localize," and if a business-model school system meant transporting students away from the community and local control, I think that would cause some problems. Maybe we're both making the same point but are just on different wavelengths. I think I know what you're getting at. <br /><br />As far as standardized tests go, I understand the theory behind them but they've gotten terribly out of control. For example, we took several days off from regular classes in the fall to study for the ACT, sometimes as long as a week or so. Then in the spring, we take two weeks or more to do state assessment tests. Beyond that, there's shorter tests held periodically for a variety of purposes. While I'd be willing to agree to some kind of standardized testing, it needs to be heavily curtailed. <br /><br />And don't get me started on No Child Left Behind. I have never met a teacher, unionized or not, who didn't utterly loathe that legislation.T_Ravnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-45440790770062174842011-02-25T22:22:36.392-05:002011-02-25T22:22:36.392-05:00You're welcome Scott.
Trust me, I have a LOT ...You're welcome Scott.<br /><br />Trust me, I have a LOT of sympathy for your father, but he's in a profession that is not going to draw a lot of sympathy because of choices made by the unions. So long as they try to pretend that teachers are a commodity (i.e. interchangeable) nothing is going to change.<br /><br /><br />I missed that documentary... though I don't know if I really <i>missed</i> it if you know what I mean! ;-)<br /><br />Seriously though, there are some great documentaries out there.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-47506306303594107352011-02-25T21:51:40.837-05:002011-02-25T21:51:40.837-05:00Thanks for the reply.
Speaking of documentaries, ...Thanks for the reply.<br /><br />Speaking of documentaries, I once watched a documentary about a font.<br /><br /><i><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0847817/" rel="nofollow">Helvetica</a></i><br /><br />It was alright but not as adrenaline-pumping as I thought it would be! ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-47289377295440493892011-02-25T21:29:41.100-05:002011-02-25T21:29:41.100-05:00Thanks Ed.
Yeah, seriously. It was pretty fascina...Thanks Ed.<br /><br />Yeah, seriously. It was pretty fascinating. Apparently, fishing is a big thing in New York City and people are doing it everywhere. They claim the rivers are clean enough now to actually eat the fish, though one guy was fishing by a sewage plant. Blech!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-82669306965989348072011-02-25T21:26:34.156-05:002011-02-25T21:26:34.156-05:00All of this discussion aside, which is quite inter...All of this discussion aside, which is quite interesting, thanks for the review. I figured something was up when I heard an Al Gore flunky made a film that criticized unions.<br /><br />Fishing in New York City? Really?Ednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-1419076201769983692011-02-25T21:24:48.838-05:002011-02-25T21:24:48.838-05:00(continued)
Also, teachers have no stress. If a d...(continued)<br />Also, teachers have no stress. If a doctor screws up, someone dies. An accountant kills a company or goes to jail. An ad exec loses a key account and kills his firm. Lawyers blow it and companies die or people go to jail. If a teacher screws up, it takes years to figure that out, and it can be corrected.<br /><br />Plus, teachers can't be fired. Not only can everyone else be fired, they can be fired because the boss wants to fire them -- no reason needs to be giving. "You're our top performer, but I don't like you.... you're gone."<br /><br />So not only do other professions work much longer, they worker harder and they work under much greater stress. So when teacher come along and say, "we aren't paid fairly," it's really hard not to get angry about that.<br /><br /><br />In any event, when it comes to reform, I think the problem with current reform is that they're putting bandaids on a corpse. The current system will not change because it has no incentive to change. Outsiders can't replace teachers and teachers can't leave the system. The budget process will never change. Parents can get upset, but their voices will not be heard because the bills are paid by legislatures. Everything in the system is designed to remain static.<br /><br />Liberals have made this worse with their social engineering. By telling teachers they can't distinguish between smart and dumb kids and they can't discipline bad kids, what they've done is convert teachers into babysitter of the worst kids or junior wardens.<br /><br />All of that needs to be ripped out of the system and the system needs to be opened to competition (for students and teachers) for real change to happen. Otherwise, we're just shifting around deck chairs.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-44508628651276128992011-02-25T21:24:43.924-05:002011-02-25T21:24:43.924-05:00Scott, Let me put it this way.
IF... if we opened...Scott, Let me put it this way.<br /><br />IF... if we opened up schools so that they had to compete for students and teachers, then people like your dad, who is teaching in an undesirable school would need to be paid more to teach there. But in the current system, he gets paid the same thing as the teacher at the cushy middle class school.<br /><br />What I'm getting at, is that while your father may not have it easy, a large number of other teachers do. And because teachers unions try to sell the idea that teachers are like a commodity with no differences, he will get lumped in with the rest and the particular hardships he faces will be ignored.<br /><br />In other words, while his complaints are valid, he's part of a herd whose complaints are not valid. And if they stopped acting like a herd, then people like your father would probably find their working conditions improved dramatically and his complaints taken much more seriously. But the unions want them to remain a herd.<br /><br />And when you look at people who only work 1400 hours a year (compared to well above 2000 in other professions), and yet they earn at or above the median wage, people don't react kindly to teachers whining about being paid unfairly or not liking their jobs.<br /><br />And let me address this idea of homework. This is a classic example of how oblivious teachers are. When a teacher says, "but I have to grade homework at home..." they complete miss the fact that so do the rest of us. Every single professional I've ever met works late and/or takes work home with them. Thus, the "but I have to grade homework" really only shows how ignorant teachers are about how little they work compared to everyone else.<br /><br />(continued)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-9961367562587327592011-02-25T20:54:05.321-05:002011-02-25T20:54:05.321-05:00P.S. T_Rav, when I say privatize, I don't mean...P.S. T_Rav, when I say privatize, I don't mean "make them all fee paying." I still think public funding is entirely appropriate. What I would suggest would be that funding follows the students. I would also be willing to consider allowing very-in-demand schools to add a small surcharge -- maybe something that says if the get twice as many applications as spots, then they could charge up to $500 a semester or something like that. BUT definitely don't mean making all schools tuition charging.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-36129228524582138122011-02-25T20:50:24.213-05:002011-02-25T20:50:24.213-05:00(I just got home and haven't read every commen...(I just got home and haven't read every comment. Apologies for any repetition.)<br /><br />I don't really have a dog in this fight but my dad's a teacher. He's in his mid-50s and it was his mid-life career change after spending his life in the private sector since college. He's not in any union and studied for his teaching certification by night while subbing during the day.<br /><br />He hates it. I know... it's his bed and now he has to sleep in it. He's been doing it for close to a decade now and it seems the students get worse every year. After teaching history and math, he currently teaches 6th grade science (though I admit he has no formal background in the field). Most of the students come from bad neighborhoods and many from broken homes and there's also a complete lack of respect. He's had students who don't even know basic English. He knows he can transfer but I guess it's a somewhat complicated process - I don't know if he's looked into private or parochial schools.<br /><br />One thing that bugs him is when people say, "Teachers have it easy! They only work nine months out of the year!" For some, that might be true but even when my dad has off, he's usually knee-deep in grading papers, preparing lesson plans, attending workshops, etc. And I know he's had his issues with the school bureaucrats. <br /><br />As some of my fellow Commentaramans have said, it's a complicated issue involving a variety of factors. I don't know enough about the subject but I just had to get all this off my chest. I've seen my dad work too hard to get lumped in with the bastards. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-31072213483324667312011-02-25T20:34:42.587-05:002011-02-25T20:34:42.587-05:00T_Rav, I don't have a problem with having them...T_Rav, I don't have a problem with having them "run like a business," because remember that business is not the stereotype many people believe. For example, this phrase does not imply lowered quality in an effort to produce cheap product. Business models very, and while some rely on cheap products, others rely on high quality or satisfying niche markets.<br /><br />That's actually ideal for schools because it means parents will have lots of options to choose from -- art schools, science schools, college prep, trade schools, etc.<br /><br />If we privatize schools, what the schools will need to do is to meet the market demand, which will mean satisfying the demands of parents. Compare that to right now, where they simply apply budgets and try to satisfy legal requirements imposed on them by state and federal regulators.<br /><br />In terms of standardized tests, I don't see any other way to evaluate student progress and thereby the quality of schools. In fact, if we hadn't imposed standardized testing requirements, people wouldn't know just how bad their schools really are. Before the No Child Left Behind standards, most people fell for the idea that "schools in general stink, but our school is good." After the test results came in, they began to realize that their own schools were bad too.<br /><br />So I would keep those as a way to compare the ability of schools to meet certain basic requirements -- math, ability to read and write. Beyond that, I would say that schools should be able to meet the demands of the market, i.e. parents, and that so long as parents can vote with their feet by changing schools, parental pressure will do the rest. Right now, parental pressure just leads to frustration because schools don't have to listen and couldn't do much even if they did. But in a privatized world, parental pressure, will force schools to improve or fail.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-10802539017056138492011-02-25T20:14:47.274-05:002011-02-25T20:14:47.274-05:00Andrew, I don't doubt the figures; that's ...Andrew, I don't doubt the figures; that's just something that, given my experience, it's impossible to wrap my head around. <br /><br />I think some kind of privatization is a good idea, but not in the sense of being run exactly like a business--that is, strictly for profit. That's not really what a school is for. <br /><br />Among other things, I would propose that: 1) A lot of the state and especially federal regulations and administration be cut out. Much of my opposition to big government came from seeing boards of education lay down sweeping rules that could not possibly apply to several hundred different school districts their members had little or no knowledge of, and this was at the state level. Control of education needs to be put back in the hands of the local community. This would also force teachers and parents to actually give a rip about the state of the schools, and give locals more of a say over what's being taught. <br /><br />2) Get rid of all the standardized tests. Whatever value these might have, which in my opinion isn't much, high schoolers spend too much of the school year preparing for them. Use it for actually learning stuff. <br /><br />3)...okay, two's all I've got for now. But those are big things.T_Ravnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-2913061312356080962011-02-25T19:52:53.254-05:002011-02-25T19:52:53.254-05:00Joel, Education is more important today than ever....Joel, Education is more important today than ever. More and more these days, jobs require you to have the kinds of skills that require significant education -- engineering, doctors, law, programming, finance, etc. The days that most of the population can get a job in a factory with a limited education and still support their families as middle class Americans are gone. If you aren't educated, then you will be in the bottom rung.<br /><br />In terms of being "underpaid," as I say, I mean that in terms of "if we want to attract the best." For the current system, no they aren't. But I think we should extend the school year significantly, demand higher performance, and open the field up to competition, so that we can attract the best people.<br /><br />Every other professional field pays people according to the demand for their skills and the better they are, the more they earn. But teaching doesn't. Until that changes, teaching will continue to draw the mediocre and suppress the best teachers. The only way to change that is to (1) end the union rules that keep people out and (2) allow bidding for better teachers.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-87302122629970982072011-02-25T19:41:31.030-05:002011-02-25T19:41:31.030-05:00Andrew,
Teachers aren't underpaid. For the re...Andrew,<br /><br />Teachers aren't underpaid. For the required product, a 6th grader who can read and write English, do basic math, and understand some of the history of The United States. They are vastly overpaid.<br /><br />It is the requirements that kill schools. Having children required to go to school for twelve years. Why? Right now, every kid is required to go to school for a full twelve years. Few stay. Most people don't need that much education to work a job. Most of the kids I know now-a-days don't have near as much high school education that I had. I had much less than my parents. <br /><br />My mother told me that it used to be, people who were going onto college would finish high school. Others would go to trade schools. Like mechanics and such. <br /><br />I understand about your example. And you are absolutly right.<br /><br />And tenure, it was explained to me that it was a political thing. <br /><br />I do like your ideas, but I still fear them because they start with a flawed system which has rewarded the wrong things for so long that I don't think it can be saved.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-65813868784659950722011-02-25T19:38:57.656-05:002011-02-25T19:38:57.656-05:00T_Rav, On the parents, I would offer the following...T_Rav, On the parents, I would offer the following points.<br /><br />1. Too many parents are absentee-parents and have abdicated their role to the schools. Thus, blaming teachers for failure is a defense mechanism.<br /><br />2. Too many parents are too litigious or too willing to assume the teacher is wrong and their kid was cheated.<br /><br />3. Check out <i>Hard Times</i>, it's a real eye opener. Seriously. The parents shown in that (or not shown as the case may be) are the kinds of parents average, middle class parents assume don't really exist -- people who don't give a damn about their kids. And we're talking close to 90% of the parents of the kids in that school. (fyi, 12 out of 500 does happen -- spend time in DC or Baltimore).<br /><br />In terms of knocking public schools, I agree. I had a mixed experience in public schools. Many of my teachers were certified idiots who didn't care about anything except a pay check. I also ran into massive problems with counselors who didn't like me trying to do more than the system expected. BUT, I also had great teachers, people I remember vividly today, whose lessons I can still repeat. So while I despise some of the people I dealt with, I also have nothing but respect for some of the others.<br /><br />Also, we moved a good deal when I was young, so I can tell you that education in different states is incredible varied. Florida public schools should be burned to the ground. Tennessee teaches 8th graders what I learned in 6th grade in Colorado, and New York kids were 2 years ahead in math and science on Colorado.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-61295751501495884922011-02-25T19:29:36.977-05:002011-02-25T19:29:36.977-05:00Joel, A couple points.
First, I agree that it doe...Joel, A couple points.<br /><br />First, I agree that it doesn't take a math degree to teach at the K-6 level. But once you get into specialty math, i.e. more than basic math, there's no reason that someone with a math degree should be considered less qualified than someone with an education degree.<br /><br />Secondly, tenure was originally created at the college level to prevent administrators from tossing out professors with unpopular opinions. It's now been turned into a "union card." I think tenure should be abolished, just like all union-like protections should be abolished. Employees need to be responsible to their managers, and there are enough laws in place to stop someone from firing you because you're black or female or handicapped. We don't need an added layer of protection that says "you can't fire someone because they are in a union." Unions destroy businesses.<br /><br />I think private schools and vouchers are a great alternative that may eventually lift us out of this problem. I would go one step further. I would quasi-privatize schools. Let principles act as owners on behalf of the state, with their jobs depending on getting results. In other words, treat them like a university president, and let parents go to whatever school they want in the city. (Also give them the power they need to manage their employees.)<br /><br />I think you would see a lot of positive changes almost overnight.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-13138882858810721062011-02-25T19:22:43.112-05:002011-02-25T19:22:43.112-05:00Andrew, it does vary a great deal; if I remember r...Andrew, it does vary a great deal; if I remember right, in my state you have to either re-take the certification test after so many years or get some kind of education degree in that time. I know the requirements next door in Arkansas are far more stringent, and they probably would be for us too if we weren't so in need of teachers. <br /><br />I would agree with most or all of the problems you point out, especially the nasty parents. I've known way too many of them, and it should be pointed out that if teachers often don't let the parents know what's going on in school (and many don't), that's largely because the parents don't seem interested in it in the first place.<br /><br />While I'm on the subject, I would like to add that we shouldn't knock public schools too hard. As a system, it is fundamentally, even criminally flawed; from personal experience, however, there are many individual public schools which are quite good. Take the one I graduated from. Although it has its share of problems, it benefits from being in a rural area with a minimal population. My high school had roughly 100 people or so at any given time (I graduated first in a class of 28), so the principal could name any kid he might see in the hall. Also, there's minimal administration, and most of them are drawn from the community, so they have more invested in how the school performs. The same goes for the teachers: Despite high turnover, we've maintained a core of teachers who are also from the area, went to school together, and have the seniority to make sure things run smoothly. Even with such a small school, I feel I had an ideal public-school experience, and it was horrifying to take that and compare it with what goes on in the inner cities. I simply could not imagine only 12 of 500 students making it to the senior year. It just doesn't happen. <br /><br />Okay, I'm gonna have to pause to collect my thoughts.T_Ravnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-10483391149437650392011-02-25T19:14:15.961-05:002011-02-25T19:14:15.961-05:00T_Rav,
Alternative certificates are okay, but thi...T_Rav,<br /><br />Alternative certificates are okay, but this has been going on for over forty years. <br /><br />These ultra-requirements are bad. It is all very well to have those degrees and abilities, more power to them. Still a home-schooled child can out-perform a public schooled student. It shouldn't take a degree to teach math for a grade school instructor. <br /><br />Not giving raises to out-performing teachers, and only giving raises to teachers who have an extra-degree is ridiculous. Also requiring school districts to give raises because the teacher has an advanced degree is also ridiculous.<br /><br />Each and every additional certificate to getting better teachers forces the good ones to turn away. To go for a job with easier requirements. <br /><br />Yes, I think teachers should have some training. Something more like three months. Just the basics. Something the military does regularly with great results. <br /><br />Requirement of an actual degree for grade schools? I am talking about 1st through 6th grades. Why?<br /><br />I can understand why a math teacher in High School would need a math degree. One who specifically is teaching math. Algebra or higher. In high school. In grade school? Not when a home-schooled child can out-perform a public schooled student.<br /><br />Tenure is bad. It allows a teacher to decide to coast. I asked my mom about tenure. It seems it used to be, public school teachers were appointed by elected officials. Tenure was to correct that. Another bandaid that has unintended consequences.<br /><br />The system now is designed to create bad teachers. I personally don't think they can be rejuvinated. It has been too long and it is too convoluted. <br /><br />I think that it should be junked for a voucher system and given over to private shools to operate.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-50648266015559125282011-02-25T18:55:56.542-05:002011-02-25T18:55:56.542-05:00T_Rav, That's something new and it varies from...T_Rav, That's something new and it varies from state to state. In big union states, it doesn't exist. In other states, it exists but often has impossible requirements. One person I know was looking into this and found out it's one for a two year period in their state and they need to pursue a particular education degree within that time -- which isn't possible if you're working.<br /><br />So while that's a step in the right direction, it's not very effective yet. But that is a critical step.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-23858529390874387612011-02-25T18:53:59.989-05:002011-02-25T18:53:59.989-05:00(continued)
I also do agree with your point that t...(continued)<br />I also do agree with your point that teaching is underpaid. But I mean that in the sense that if the profession paid more and was open to better people, we could attract better people. I don't think dumping more money on the current system is a good idea. Right now, the profession has a list of requirements (the education degree) that keep out the very people that need to be attracted. So until that is dropped entirely, we would just be throwing good money after bad.<br /><br />I have no problem at all with apprenticeships, I think that's vital to training and making sure that the people you get have the ability.<br /><br />Beyond that though, the real key to fixing education (and I keep meaning to outline this in a post) is competition and realigning consumers (parents) with producers (schools). Right now, schools are responsive to no one or to state legislatures or unions, but not taxpayers. Until that happens, their incentives will never be properly aligned.<br /><br />Also, to get true competition, we need the government to back off with the requirements. They should provide basic requirements that left parents monitor success, but they need to stop micro managing. I'll see about writing a post on this.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-91968244137888797522011-02-25T18:53:56.029-05:002011-02-25T18:53:56.029-05:00Joel, You've raise some good points, though I...Joel, You've raise some good points, though I don't entirely agree.<br /><br />Let's start with this. As I note in response to T-Rav (and as he says), there are a lot more problems than just bad teachers. But bad teachers are definitely a serious problem. And that starts with the qualifications issue.<br /><br />For example, it makes NO sense that someone with an education degree but no math background should be allowed to teach math, but a mathematician cannot. How sane is that? Do you know that I am not qualified to teach a legal class to high school kids, even though I have an advanced degree that would let me be a professor, I've practiced for many years in various aspects of the profession, and I've taught legal writing. Yet, a gym teacher with an education degree is considered qualified. How does that make sense?<br /><br />(continued)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-36945045105880122002011-02-25T18:34:21.207-05:002011-02-25T18:34:21.207-05:00Joel, fortunately it's not as bad as that in e...Joel, fortunately it's not as bad as that in every state. In Missouri, for instance, we have "alternate certification," which is basically someone well-educated and qualified in their field taking a test and being cleared to teach without having to get the travesty that is an education degree. This wasn't the case until recently, when the shortage of math and science teachers in particular became crippling.T_Ravnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-63016921889300393112011-02-25T18:32:32.211-05:002011-02-25T18:32:32.211-05:00T_Rav, That's very true. I think there are a ...T_Rav, That's very true. I think there are a lot of problems with our schools system and there is no single magic fix. For example, I think you have problems with (1) not enough time spent in school, (2) low expectations, (3) uninvolved parents/nasty defensive parents, (4) bad teachers, (5) lack of diversity (particularly males), (6) too many trendy ideas, (7) too much dumped on schools, (8) lack of useful qualifications for teachers, (9) too much money wasted on administrators, etc. etc. I could go on a very long time.<br /><br />I recall when this came out that a lot of conservatives were jumping up and down saying "FINALLY!!" But I think they were far too optimistic. I think a lot of conservatives came into this knowing many of the problems and when <i>Waiting</i> hints at those, they filled in the details and jumped up and down happily. But he never really agrees with conservatives at any point.<br /><br />For example, he makes it sound like he believes that unions are bad guys, BUT as he goes on, he never really levels any charge against them except that a few "lemons" can't be fired. He never gets into how they stop every serious reform or how they keep talented people out of the profession.<br /><br />And that's the problem here, he paints a very vague picture that lets you think he's confirming what you already believe. Thus, both conservatives and liberals CAN feel like he's agreeing with them. But how is that possible unless he's just being vague?<br /><br />In the end, when you look at what he really says, what all he does is "confirm" that liberalism has been held back by a few evil people.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com