tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post8956870177547698186..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: The Next Obama Scandal: “Gun Walking”AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-36113814933265977052011-06-20T21:17:23.857-04:002011-06-20T21:17:23.857-04:00Koshcat, There is a good chance they could be char...Koshcat, There is a good chance they could be charged by Mexico, but probably not the US because they'll have immunity based on their having been acting as law enforcement at the time of the decision.<br /><br />In terms of the contradiction, I actually don't think it's that complex of a plan: (1) Step one, get American guns to Mexican criminals. (2) Ask Mexico to tell us every time an American gun gets used in a crime. (3) Scream bloody murder about American guns being used to fuel the drug war in Mexico.<br /><br />It's really very simple and well within the thinking of Team Obama.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-26160546070876667782011-06-20T19:23:38.219-04:002011-06-20T19:23:38.219-04:00I'm having trouble buying the idea as a overal...I'm having trouble buying the idea as a overall plan for gun control. They just don't seem competent enough to develop such a complex plan. Then again it was such an idiotic plan to begin with...trouble processing the contradiction...<br /><br />At this point I see no difference between this and Watergate. In both instances an illegal act was performed for possible political gain. For every gun used in a criminal act in the US, the ATF (and personally the whole administration) should be charged as asseccories since the knowingly encouraged the guns to be sold illegally.Koshcatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-64482121958118375942011-06-20T17:55:28.249-04:002011-06-20T17:55:28.249-04:00T_Rav, I doubt the Chicago connection is a coincid...T_Rav, I doubt the Chicago connection is a coincidence either. Obama more than anyone in recent memory seems to draw on people he knows to fill government positions. So it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this guy goes way back with Obama.<br /><br />On the tracking, everything I read yesterday said that the ATF had no intention of tracking the guns -- nor were they set up for it (in fact, they're now claiming they didn't have enough people to do it... hint hint we need more funds). The purpose was just to start building a huge record of crimes in Mexico with guns with serial numbers the ATF could trace.<br /><br />In terms of Mexico, I doubt very much that they told the Mexicans what they were doing because Mexico would have flipped out. Seriously, could you imagine the outrage in Mexico if it gets out that Mexico knew we were supply guns to their gangs just to see what happens? No el Presidente is going to go along with that.<br /><br />I'll bet that we hear soon that they just told Mexico they needed serial numbers to verify that illegally purchased guns had made it into Mexico.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-81404547331598011642011-06-20T17:49:39.489-04:002011-06-20T17:49:39.489-04:00Patti, One thing Obama does not believe in is rule...Patti, One thing Obama does not believe in is rule of law. We've seen that over and over and this fits perfectly with his view that he's above the law.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-70854253803602600242011-06-20T17:29:08.931-04:002011-06-20T17:29:08.931-04:00Andrew and Bev, that would tally with the PJ Media...Andrew and Bev, that would tally with the PJ Media piece I mentioned earlier, saying there was never any intention of tracking these weapons. They probably would have lost track of them anyway, I'm thinking, but they apparently never even tried.<br /><br />Considering how many heads of state Obama has thrown under the bus in the past two years, I will lay you three to one odds that the Mexican government was not told about this operation. It'll be interesting to see where they go from here. <br /><br />I did see that about Holder interviewing the Chicago office director. I'm sure that's pure coincidence.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89103520042848293282011-06-20T17:08:19.716-04:002011-06-20T17:08:19.716-04:00andrew: team obama will do whatever it takes, no m...andrew: team obama will do whatever it takes, no matter the cost to others, as witnessed from the very beginning of his reign. i wasn't at all surprised when i heard this. anything barry denies knowing is suspect to me. this has his stank all over it. if it looks like, smells like, sells illegally like....pattihttp://www.notwonk.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-4790742464513270652011-06-20T16:46:59.997-04:002011-06-20T16:46:59.997-04:00Bev, From the sound of it, they did no surveillanc...Bev, From the sound of it, they did no surveillance once these guns crossed the border and they never intended to. They just wanted to get the guns into Mexico and then get a list of crimes those guns were used to commit.<br /><br />To answer your question though, yes, Mexico is a sovereign country with rights. So if they wanted to do that kind of surveillance, they would need to get the permission of the Mexican government or they would run afoul of Mexico's laws and the ATF agents could have been locked up by Mexican authorities for committing things that would be crimes in Mexico -- spying, wiretapping, etc.<br /><br />Presumably, that's why the State Department was involved, to get the approval of Mexico's government to do something. ALTHOUGH, Mexico's stance that this needs to be investigated and prosecuted calls into question whether Mexico ever was told what was really going on and if they gave their consent.<br /><br />It's very possible State only asked Mexico to provide gun serial numbers without telling Mexico what the ATF had done.<br /><br />It will be interesting to see how Mexico reacts to all of this.<br /><br /><br />Yeah... Chicago... imagine that. Another Obama buddy to do damage control and keep things quiet. Obama really is like the Chicago mafia isn't it?AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-91747923951637432222011-06-20T16:37:20.540-04:002011-06-20T16:37:20.540-04:00This is probably a question that has been asked an...This is probably a question that has been asked and answered, BUT...so Mexico being a sovereign nation and all, how was it that the ATF agents were going to be able to track these guns once they got into Mexico? Does the ATF have special powers that we don't know about that allow their agents to cross the border into a sovereign nation? Especially since they did not inform the Mexican government of this secret operation? <br /><br />Isn't that kind of against some kind of UN treaty or something?<br /><br />Oh, btw, Holder is speaking to the ATF director from...guess..just guess...I dare you...okay, the Chicago office to replace the present director who is going to resign any day now. Hmmmm.BevfromNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-23341191520879090342011-06-20T16:06:35.255-04:002011-06-20T16:06:35.255-04:00Thanks Stan! We'll see if anyone asks Obama t...Thanks Stan! We'll see if anyone asks Obama that question or not. If there is enough pressure then he'll have to answer for it -- probably right after he loses the election too.<br /><br />I'm betting they think the resignation will take the pressure off, but I doubt it because no one has pointed at him yet. So resigning will just get him out of the way and will leave other targets for the investigation.<br /><br />I'm glad Rush is pushing this. This really is a big deal.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-8575989783709934242011-06-20T16:01:51.966-04:002011-06-20T16:01:51.966-04:00Drat! …another harebrained liberal idea fails. Who...Drat! …another harebrained liberal idea fails. Who-da-thunk? <br /><br />On a telling note: “Acting Director Kenneth Melson may resign in the next day or two, the sources said.” …underling falls on sword. Hmmm…<br /><br />Rush led his show off and ended his show pounding away, on this very subject.<br /><br />Now for the immortal question that will never be asked of our Marxist messiah, “what did you know and when did you know it, Mr. President?” <br /><br />Good read Andrew.StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-7758836052741749792011-06-20T15:44:53.566-04:002011-06-20T15:44:53.566-04:00T_Rav,
Apparently, Mexico's attorney general...T_Rav, <br /><br />Apparently, Mexico's attorney general demanded an investigation some time ago and is saying that anyone responsible for the operation needs to be prosecuted. This could get very interesting if Mexico decides to be aggressive about this as American law enforcement immunity would not extend to Mexican law.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-58190117540042234312011-06-20T15:10:18.892-04:002011-06-20T15:10:18.892-04:00T_Rav, If this does get noticed and I'm starti...T_Rav, If this does get noticed and I'm starting to think it will, then this will be very solid proof that the conservative new-media is a heck of a lot more powerful than the MSM wants them to be. Because the MSM has tried to bury this story and we conservatives have still gotten the message out.<br /><br />I actually ran across this at Politico, where they had one very small article about Obama denying knowledge of the operation -- and operation they neither explained in that article, nor did they have any other article about it. So I went looking for it.<br /><br />I won't be surprised if he resigns very quickly as damage control. As I mention in the article they're trying everything they can to divert attention from what I think is probably the real story here -- White House approval. But if this thing does get traction (and it looks like it already has) I think Issa is the perfect man to put subpoena power to good use.<br /><br />This is actually kind of fascinating to watch how it unfolds.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-5622616193221193062011-06-20T15:02:29.414-04:002011-06-20T15:02:29.414-04:00Thanks Crispy! Hopefully, with more people mentio...Thanks Crispy! Hopefully, with more people mentioning it, this will get the investigation it deserves and needs.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-41703208931753306862011-06-20T14:58:02.668-04:002011-06-20T14:58:02.668-04:00Andrew, I have a feeling this story will get tract...Andrew, I have a feeling this story will get traction very quickly. It's starting to pop up all over the blogosphere--I can't remember how many stories I've seen on it in the past few hours--and in light of how fast a story involving a certain congressman and certain indiscretions of his migrated from there into the MSM, I think this is bound to get noticed to some extent. <br /><br />Incidentally, Drudge is saying the acting ATF chief is expected to resign shortly.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-82545900074250358232011-06-20T14:52:30.492-04:002011-06-20T14:52:30.492-04:00Btw, Rush talked about this today as well. (Thoug...Btw, Rush talked about this today as well. (Though you beat him by about 3 hours, Andrew, LOL!) Anyway, I was only half-listening, so I have no further details, but the story seems to be growing legs.CrispyRicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07302075204880024936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-83115969423699807562011-06-20T14:41:05.729-04:002011-06-20T14:41:05.729-04:00T_Rav, Thanks for finding that! It's good to ...T_Rav, Thanks for finding that! It's good to see that other people are interpreting this the same way. Hopefully that will help it catch on with the bigger conservative media!<br /><br />I think the evidence is pretty strong that (1) there was no legitimate law enforcement purpose to letting these guns go and (2) the coincidences are just too strong that this would score political points for ATF's bosses, i.e. Obama. To me, that adds up. I obviously have no proof yet, but it does add up.<br /><br />In terms of an indictment, it is highly unlikely that there can be any sort of criminal charge because law enforcement has broad immunity when engaging in law enforcement activities. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's highly unlikely. They would need to show that somehow this was outside the law enforcement capacity and that they condoned illegal conduct for political reasons -- which I suppose is possible, but will be very hard.<br /><br />Still, it needs to be investigated, exposed and then we need to see what turns up. You never know what will come out once you start looking.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-76175131583592303432011-06-20T14:26:51.250-04:002011-06-20T14:26:51.250-04:00Andrew, having checked out more of the details of ...Andrew, having checked out more of the details of this on Pajamas Media, they seem to be backing up your theory that the ultimate purpose of this operation was gun control. The argument that blog makes is based on the fact that 1) Not only did ATF have no way of tracking these guns, they did not, as a matter of policy, extend surveillance beyond the Mexican border; 2) ATF agents were not at any time allowed to interfere with the smuggling of guns across the border; and 3) The Bureau had as its benchmark of success not the number of people arrested, but how many guns turned up and how much violence occurred due to these smuggled weapons. (That last bit comes from agent John Dodson, who also related that lovely omelet quote you mentioned.) <br /><br />Based on that, and of course the Obama administration's well-known support for more gun control, there's certainly a strong case to be made along those lines. A few people are saying this could result in convictions for senior administration officials and possibly an indictment for Obama himself. (Personally, though I'm not a lawyer, it sounds to me like there'd have to be more of a smoking gun for that to happen. But we'll see.)T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-65136571413725996162011-06-20T14:14:22.723-04:002011-06-20T14:14:22.723-04:00Ed, Conservative journalism is really taking off. ...Ed, Conservative journalism is really taking off. So hopefully this will be fully investigated. if the MSM won't do it, then maybe someone like Breitbart will.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-36336394059806955192011-06-20T14:13:34.551-04:002011-06-20T14:13:34.551-04:00T_Rav, I think that actually explains a lot of lib...T_Rav, I think that actually explains a lot of liberalism. Inevitably you will hear them whine some conspiracy theory about conservatives and then a few weeks/months/years later, they get caught doing exactly what they tried to accuse the Republicans of doing.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-77650501934147364382011-06-20T14:05:06.553-04:002011-06-20T14:05:06.553-04:00Andrew, It's too bad we don't really have ...Andrew, It's too bad we don't really have a competent media anymore. Hopefully, conservatives will investigate and this will be fully exposed.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18122308626703654554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-8846988803499454412011-06-20T14:05:04.662-04:002011-06-20T14:05:04.662-04:00Andrew, it all brings to mind that psychological n...Andrew, it all brings to mind that psychological notion of projection or mirroring or whatever it is. I don't remember the exact explanation but I figure you know what I mean. Applies to both Calderon's hypocrisy and the administration's image of Republicans.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-67963553051261186392011-06-20T13:35:41.576-04:002011-06-20T13:35:41.576-04:00Ed, You're welcome. And I think that goes wit...Ed, You're welcome. And I think that goes without saying. If this had been a Republican administration there would be 1,000 reporters on the border right now looking for evidence implicating Bush. But since it's Obama, they'll wait and see if conservatives can make a bug enough deal of it that they have to handle it.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-1912132503010220122011-06-20T13:28:12.950-04:002011-06-20T13:28:12.950-04:00Andrew, Excellent article. Thanks for pointing th...Andrew, Excellent article. Thanks for pointing this stuff out. I guess we need to wait and see if the MSM will pick up with this and investigate. My guess is that they will consider this a closed matter because Obama is a Democrat. But you can be assured that if this was the Bush administration, they would be uncovering every single fact and then some.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18122308626703654554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-53250864620220984412011-06-20T13:27:41.527-04:002011-06-20T13:27:41.527-04:00Bev, It is indeed Wag the Dog. I wonder if Team O...Bev, It is indeed <i>Wag the Dog</i>. I wonder if Team Obama has been in fantasy paranoia land for so long, where they think conservatives do this because Hollywood tells them we do, that they decided they could get away with it themselves?AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-9826870264432542642011-06-20T13:20:51.572-04:002011-06-20T13:20:51.572-04:00Yes, - It's Wag the Dog! Let's start a li...Yes, - It's <i><b>Wag the Dog</b></i>! Let's start a little gun running operation in border state gun shops so that we can prove there is a little gun running operation in Arizona gun shopsBevfromNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.com