tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post4088290151686364488..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: The End of ToontownAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-67688913491435330212010-08-08T01:49:26.742-04:002010-08-08T01:49:26.742-04:00I love Roger Rabbit. It's like a movie that c...I love Roger Rabbit. It's like a movie that celebrated cartoons. Love it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-57215460583179251192010-08-01T21:04:19.210-04:002010-08-01T21:04:19.210-04:00Individualist, I think there is something to what ...Individualist, I think there is something to what you say. The level at which cartoon are drawn seems to be different today.<br /><br />Older cartoons tended to have a great deal of nuance in that they were obviously aimed at children, but they were crawling with adult themes. It's like the creators were doing something that would entertain themselves and then had to tone it down a bit for the kids.<br /><br />Today's cartoons are either totally aimed at adults, in which case they usually stink, or they are completely aimed at kids and they're done at a very simpleton, childish level. It's like they've all gone to the See Spot Run level, when they should be aiming for Animal Farm.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-15860405774947356842010-08-01T20:02:49.611-04:002010-08-01T20:02:49.611-04:00I think the main problem today with cartoons is th...I think the main problem today with cartoons is that the creators are trying to hard to be childrens cartoons.<br /><br />Daffy Duck, the Coyote, Elmer even Mickey, Minnie and Goofy were still played as adults in zany situations. Many of the cartoon had adult themes behind them that went over the kids heads and made them enjoyable for all ages.<br /><br />Today they go two ways. They try ti be too gross or intentionally to childish. The children see through it. The only cartoon that does not fall into this category that I can think of is Phineas and Ferb.Individualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-22667440157327255912010-07-30T16:43:05.964-04:002010-07-30T16:43:05.964-04:00Joel, I've had a real problem with the switch ...Joel, I've had a real problem with the switch from hand-drawn to computer drawn. The hand-drawn animation felt very real and often gave you the sense of an immersive world. But the computer stuff is sterile and moves strangely.<br /><br />As for the racism issue, yes, the problem with cartoons is that what is considered acceptable changes a lot in the world of PC childrens programming. Thus, things that were once intended to be politically correct positive displays of foreign cultures are now considered racist. Cigarettes are being digitally removed from all cartoons in England. Violence is being removed in some places, characters deleted in others.<br /><br />Even "Sesame Street", the ultimate purveyor of political correctness now comes with a warning label that it's "not intended for children" when you buy the early episodes because what was considered progressive then is now seen as racist and evil by the new progressives.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-68744850063437041162010-07-30T16:37:05.624-04:002010-07-30T16:37:05.624-04:00Bev, I think that's true as well. Holding som...Bev, I think that's true as well. Holding someone's attention (children included) is about engaging their mind and pulling them into the story. Substituting frenetic action for quality storytelling can keep people interested for a little bit until the novelty wears off, but it can't hold anyone long term. . . though too many people today seem to think it can.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-53848935080224901222010-07-30T16:25:58.974-04:002010-07-30T16:25:58.974-04:00Andrew,
You are right, and some of the old ones h...Andrew,<br /><br />You are right, and some of the old ones have been banned because of racism.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8D93Awa434<br /><br />What lost me was the animation. When the animators started dropping the number of cells per frame, it became harder to watch and then harder to enjoy. Now, I do watch some because I have kids who enjoy it, but it isn't the same.Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-47574078529424816732010-07-30T16:03:20.550-04:002010-07-30T16:03:20.550-04:00LawHawk - I spent many years working in "chil...LawHawk - I spent many years working in "children's theatre" and what your 4 year old grandchild says about cartoons translates to the stage as well. You can always tell when you lose their attention - children don't lie and are not polite. They get loud and fidgety.<br /><br />And it's a misconception that children need fast-paced, frenetic action to hold their attention. As a matter of fact, it is just the opposite. They will watch grass if you tell a good story about growing grass. If it is a good story told well, they get it. Walt Disney built his empire on it.BevfromNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-77520923112181054392010-07-30T14:33:26.816-04:002010-07-30T14:33:26.816-04:00wahsatchmo, I am a HUGE Wallace & Gromit fan. ...wahsatchmo, I am a HUGE Wallace & Gromit fan. In fact, I rate Gromit as the most expressive "cartoon" character of all time -- and he doesn't even have a mouth. It's just incredible work! Plus, I think the shows have been so well done. I really hope they do more.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-60194397055235370072010-07-30T14:26:57.835-04:002010-07-30T14:26:57.835-04:00Lawhawk, I can imagine you in a raccoon hat. . . s...Lawhawk, I can imagine you in a raccoon hat. . . scary! LOL!<br /><br />I know what you mean about the loss of subtlety. It's amazing how stupid they seem to think their audiences are today, compared to how much credit they used to give their audiences. Sad.<br /><br />And you're right about the cartoony violence. No kid that I've ever come across thinks it's real. . . but quite a few liberal college professors apparently do.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-24460392295874925632010-07-30T14:18:36.105-04:002010-07-30T14:18:36.105-04:00It’s funny, because I’ve seen Spongebob, Dexter’s ...It’s funny, because I’ve seen Spongebob, Dexter’s Lab, Invader Zim, etc., and while they have some of the mania and spit-takes of old, they lack a certain something that was there in yesteryear. Maybe it’s heart, maybe it’s a certain sense of style; I’m not really sure.<br /><br />That said, Nick Park’s Wallace & Gromit claymation series is just about spot on for modern day animation that has that flavor of the old school. I showed “A Matter of Loaf and Death” to my niece and nephew, and they loved it. Yeah, it’s not a cartoon, but it’s done so lovingly that I hate for anyone not to see it.wahsatchmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15990668466361072408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-29320999003461384502010-07-30T14:14:22.686-04:002010-07-30T14:14:22.686-04:00Tennessee: I had a Davy Crockett leather jacket, ...Tennessee: I had a Davy Crockett leather jacket, fringe and all. But I demurred on the coonskin hat.<br /><br />Andrew: They can indeed figure out quickly who the good guys are. Sneakiness (a common trait among Congressional Democrats) was a particularly undesirable trait derided in cartoons of old. Not nuanced enough today.<br /><br />Also, I knew things were going downhill when the best cartoons (and the most fun) were being criticized for being "too violent." As if a kid can't figure out that Wile E. Coyote wasn't really being blown up with Acme Dynamite and Yosemite Sam wasn't really filling his opponents with lead.<br /><br />And now you know why my favorite cartoon character is the Tasmanian Devil.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-91949823007728825312010-07-30T13:39:02.895-04:002010-07-30T13:39:02.895-04:00Jed, I love Fantasia! The marriage between classi...Jed, I love Fantasia! The marriage between classical music and the animation they've done in Fantasia is absolutely perfect. It really is a masterpiece!<br /><br />And while I agree with you about Mickey, my favorite moment is actually that moment when the poor crocodile is waiting for the impact as the hippo ballerina flies through the air towards him!<br /><br />Great stuff!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-46248722982604607212010-07-30T13:25:20.431-04:002010-07-30T13:25:20.431-04:00Hawk - I entertained my grand daughters (11 and 7)...Hawk - I entertained my grand daughters (11 and 7) with Fess Parker as Davy Crockett. I don't know if it was the east Tennessee connection or not, but they actually loved it. Strangely, it actually held up quite well for 62 year old young at heart types as well.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-87222809756149555302010-07-30T13:22:00.764-04:002010-07-30T13:22:00.764-04:00To Darski's point, possibly the greatest examp...To Darski's point, possibly the greatest example was Fantasia--- way ahead of it's time. Can anyone argue that Mickey Mouse as the scorcerer's apprentice was as good as it gets?Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-20402232601801651112010-07-30T12:55:02.871-04:002010-07-30T12:55:02.871-04:00Lawhawk, I think you've made a great point -- ...Lawhawk, I think you've made a great point -- kids get this! They can easily separate good from bad and they gravitate to the good, which is why the old stuff continues to sell.<br /><br />When I was young, I remember people complaining "old cartoons are often too scary or too sad or too violent." But it was the emotional moments that made them great and no one ever took the violence seriously. Nobody thinks you can smack your cat with a frying pan and you'll see stars.<br /><br />What they've done is to suck the soul out of modern cartoons. They're slick and progessed, but they're not fun and the don't really reach you anymore.<br /><br />That's one of the things I thought was so great about <i>Up</i> and <i>Wall-E</i>, is that both were very emotional. . . very well done.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-48082383365806533722010-07-30T12:51:30.259-04:002010-07-30T12:51:30.259-04:00LL, "Sic transit gloria mundi" -- very n...LL, "Sic transit gloria mundi" -- very nice!<br /><br />I agree that the process has changed. When you see shows about how they did it in the past, the animators at the time were literally inventing the genre. And the key was that they were "experimenting," i.e. trying everything to see what worked and what they could achieve.<br /><br />There's little experimentation today. What you have instead, is everyone following well worn film formula and striving only to perfect what has already been done. And I think that really harms the level of creativity.<br /><br />I see the same thing in the music world, where they've stopped experimenting and are instead simply tinkering with a proven model. . . which creates nothing but dullness and sameness.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89785109530551047032010-07-30T12:46:33.520-04:002010-07-30T12:46:33.520-04:00Andrew: I am suddenly faced with having to entert...Andrew: I am suddenly faced with having to entertain grandkids. The younger ones are relatively easy, since you can give them simple games and basic toys, and they're happy as clams. But here is the wisdom of a four-year old. I have the DVD of Disney's <i>Dumbo</i>. The grandkids watched it intently. They laughed at the funny scenes, "awwwed" at the cute scenes, got teary-eyed at the sad scenes, and cheered at the triumphal scenes at the end. The four-year old asked me afterwards "how come they don't show those cartoons on TV?" They instinctively understood exactly what you've written about. A flying elephant--aww, c'mon. Now what happens next?LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-68102929158093768002010-07-30T12:37:29.729-04:002010-07-30T12:37:29.729-04:00I don't think we have the wit and wisdom left ...I don't think we have the wit and wisdom left in Hollywood remaining to create the likes of Loony Tunes. <br /><br />A lot of thought went into cartoons such as the Road Runner -- and today they'd have to pass through censors from Greenpeace, PETA and would never pass.<br /><br />It's a pity. Sic transit gloria mundi.LLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05538854359365988863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89850250144896681922010-07-30T12:04:13.405-04:002010-07-30T12:04:13.405-04:00Ed, I think there are some good things going on, b...Ed, I think there are some good things going on, but they aren't the norm. As I mention above, I think <i>South Park</i> is one of the best social satires in decades. And <i>Up</i> and <i>Wall-E</i> were truly impressive story telling. But there isn't much in the way of cartoony-cartoons anymore.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-42507578740058355062010-07-30T11:57:31.040-04:002010-07-30T11:57:31.040-04:00Bullwinkle is awesome, especially the Fractured Fa...Bullwinkle is awesome, especially the Fractured Fairy Tales. There hasn't been anything like that in a long time, and it doesn't look like there will be looking at the bland or obnoxious cartoons they're making today.Ednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-47279599497908011302010-07-30T11:22:39.108-04:002010-07-30T11:22:39.108-04:00Tam, I've heard that from several people. Whe...Tam, I've heard that from several people. When given a choice, kids seem to gravitate toward the older stuff.<br /><br />I think everything about the older stuff appeals to kids on their level. The stories are simpler, the characters are more goofy, and the cartoon worlds are more fantastic. Today's stuff is simply too real, and I think that makes it more dull.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-22360638192738827122010-07-30T11:11:56.834-04:002010-07-30T11:11:56.834-04:00I think it is interesting that my kid's favori...I think it is interesting that my kid's favorite cartoons are the old Tom & Jerry and the classic Pink Panther. He loves Penguins of Madagascar and Phineas and Ferb and SpongeBob, but given the choice, he always chooses the classics.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16892551860593187175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-42945510125625435032010-07-30T11:07:03.556-04:002010-07-30T11:07:03.556-04:00darksi, I think a lot of people think of cartoons ...darksi, I think a lot of people think of cartoons when they hear classical music, largely because cartoons were the perfect vehicle for "animating" classical music.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-32361982800041187912010-07-30T11:06:14.084-04:002010-07-30T11:06:14.084-04:00Stan, I think you're right about the timeline ...Stan, I think you're right about the timeline of cartoons, but I would add that it really started to get bad in the 1980s. In the 1980s, they realized that they could use cartoons to sell products and they started to think that they could send overt PC messages in cartoons. That's when they really started to tank.<br /><br />But the real loss has come in the past two decades when computers came into vogue and you started seeing much more lifeless cartoons that all obeyed the laws of physics.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-59964150313416902492010-07-30T10:55:06.701-04:002010-07-30T10:55:06.701-04:00Crispy, Same principle, LOL!
Actually, I'm ta...Crispy, Same principle, LOL!<br /><br />Actually, I'm talking about almost every cartoon that comes out these days. They are either adult oriented (and usually poorly drawn) or done by computer and soulless.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com