tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post5523447914867847176..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: Harry Potter: Conservative HeroAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-52392304221873943792009-08-06T12:16:54.216-04:002009-08-06T12:16:54.216-04:00Mike, I'd heard that too, that Harry Potter tu...Mike, I'd heard that too, that Harry Potter turned on millions of kids to reading.<br /><br />I also saw your fight with "Whiskey". I thought Whiskey was wrong on all point, and that you did a great job of showing that. But I also don't think he was going to listen to reason. Sadly, there is a lot of that these days.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-86936100911200613532009-08-06T11:05:28.630-04:002009-08-06T11:05:28.630-04:00I'm late to the party on this one...
I worked...I'm late to the party on this one...<br /><br />I worked in a bookstore for ten years--through the entire Harry Potter phenomenon--and was absolutely blown away by the enthusiasm from children of all ages and both sexes for these books. And a noticeable percentage of these kids went on to read other books I'd recommend while waiting for the next installment.<br /><br />I bought the first book for my nephew and meant just to skim through it to see if it was any good, and ended up reading it in one sitting and buying a second copy for him.<br /><br />And Andrew's right about the content of these books--if you believe that the fantasy genre is unacceptable morally I don't know what to tell you, but if you can accept Tolkien or Lewis, Edgar Eager or E. Nesbitt, the Harry Potter books are right up there.<br /><br />I had an "intense debate" over at BH with a guy named Whiskey who claimed that these books embodied a "women's morality" (apparently meaning wishy-washy and malleable), as opposed to the "masculine morality" embodied by <i>Star Wars.</i> I could only conclude that not only had he not read the Potter books, but that he hadn't watched the three <i>Star Wars</i> prequels, either.Mike Kriskeyhttp://www.threedonia.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-12769108994132248582009-08-04T10:58:28.479-04:002009-08-04T10:58:28.479-04:00Freedom21, you're welcome. I think they'r...Freedom21, you're welcome. I think they're very enjoyable books, though there is one that I don't like and I did feel the ending was a bit flat. But it is very refreshing to read something without feeling like you're being preached at about the latest leftwing fad.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-13833470579840330422009-08-04T10:37:46.098-04:002009-08-04T10:37:46.098-04:00Thanks!!! I've never actually read the books.....Thanks!!! I've never actually read the books...but I'm thinking it's a good idea to start!<br /><br />Also, this is really good news to hear as Rowling mentioned in a recent interview that her next project would be a political fairy tales...maybe those will have the same themes!!freedom21https://www.blogger.com/profile/02826191666894010323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-70674358654782938682009-08-04T09:52:06.713-04:002009-08-04T09:52:06.713-04:00Stan, I agree entirely. We do need more Harry Pot...Stan, I agree entirely. We do need more Harry Potters. Anything that imparts decent values, that is entertaining, and that gets kids reading is good for us all.<br /><br />I completely agree with your assessment of the people with the signs. Even now, you can find websites dedicated to "explaining" to you how "Satanists" love Harry Potter and how reading Harry Potter is your first step to becoming a devil worshiper. Ridiculous.<br /><br />And you're right about Arthur. In fact, most of the classics contain very adult themes, even many of the classic children's books. The one article I was referencing mentioned the Wizard of Oz and Willy Wonka, which have truly bizarre drug and racist imagery/themes. Yet somehow the author (who clearer never read those either) claimed those were wholesome.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-83185215081710064372009-08-04T09:43:43.146-04:002009-08-04T09:43:43.146-04:00CrisD, I'm tired of it as well. I've wond...CrisD, I'm tired of it as well. I've wondered for a long time why there is such venom for these books. I think that part of it is just publicity seeking -- what better way to get publicity than to attack the biggest game in town. But I suspect another part is that since they haven't read it, they aren't really giving you their opinion, so much as they are just reacting to things they've heard (which aren't accurate).<br /><br />And I love the disclaimer! Yours and CrispyRice's! LOL!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-50766527968287515882009-08-04T09:12:31.637-04:002009-08-04T09:12:31.637-04:00My daughter was one of the kids that had to have t...My daughter was one of the kids that had to have the Harry Potter books the day they arrived, and my wife and I made sure that it happened, what a wonderful thing a modern kid anxious for a book. I never read the books, however my wife has, and she said they were thoroughly enjoyable. I have seen the movies and found them to be fine, nothing objectionable for me, relative to the times. At our arrival at the theater for the first movie, my wife and I had our daughter with four, or five little friends in tow, and there were a couple people protesting with sandwich signs saying to paraphrase, “Have anything to do with Harry Potter and you’re going to Hell.” That to me is an example of a moralistic, elitist, sanctimonious, jerks, and I told them so, they didn’t like it, …oh well. To me it’s relative to the Arthurian Fables, King Arthur, and the Knights of the Round Table, it has all of these type of characters, yet the busy bodies don’t attack Arthur. In my mind we need more Harry Potters, not less.StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-21322140297056117232009-08-04T08:46:03.668-04:002009-08-04T08:46:03.668-04:00LOL @ CrisD's PS! "No conservatives were...LOL @ CrisD's PS! "No conservatives were harmed in the reading of this book!" LOL!CrispyRicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07302075204880024936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-49644153530553207742009-08-04T05:36:15.945-04:002009-08-04T05:36:15.945-04:00I echo ScottDS THANK YOU! I am tired of cheap sho...I echo ScottDS THANK YOU! I am tired of cheap shots from people who look at the movies instead of evaluating the books. The movies are the modern version of illustrations.<br /><br />The story arc of this series is very strong and wholesome. I don't like to talk about it too much because it gives away the full story and the readers' final "take away message." Additionally, it reads as one complete work yet is a cleverly disguised "reader" from the first intro level to the last young adult level. <br /><br />Thanks for your insights.<br /><br />PS. No liberals or witches were created in our house while growing up on Harry Potter. (All three vote R.)CrisDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-66704655303879220572009-08-03T23:02:21.104-04:002009-08-03T23:02:21.104-04:00CrispyRice, I think you're right about Harry. ...CrispyRice, I think you're right about Harry. Every book is crawling with questions of when you should follow authority and when you don't. And when Harry gets it right, he is rewarded. When he gets it wrong, he gets punished.<br /><br />The books are also about who you can trust and who you can't. And the message is clear, trust your friends, trust your family, trust a favored teacher, but never trust the government, never trust people looking to use you.<br /><br />You're also right about elitism. It really has become a state of mind, based on disdain for the rest of us.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-23140448401576690672009-08-03T22:58:17.683-04:002009-08-03T22:58:17.683-04:00JG, LOL! You caught me. That is who I was referr...JG, LOL! You caught me. That is who I was referring to with the third complaint. And you're right, there is a LOT of institutional hatred over at BH for Harry Potter.<br /><br />I just don't get it, except that they haven't read the books and it's the "in thing" to do. And you're right, how can you offer a criticism when you haven't read the material? I don't get it. And I think it's a disservice to people.<br /><br />I also absolutely agree about Order of the Phoenix -- very insightful! When I read it, I kept saying, please people, read this. . . understand this. . . internalize it. This is the problem with unchecked government!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-49908503113763951202009-08-03T22:53:57.058-04:002009-08-03T22:53:57.058-04:00Scott,
Elitism is a word that has its roots in po...Scott,<br /><br />Elitism is a word that has its roots in populism, which is not a good thing. It was originally meant to demonize rich people, but it later evolved to mean “a political, economic or cultural elite” -- a group that sits separate and apart from average Americans: think private schools, private clubs, homes in exclusive neighborhoods, revolving door jobs between corporate boards and the highest echelons of government/journalism/banks/law firms/charitable foundations, and all based on an accident of birth, not merit.<br /><br />In the past 30-40 years, this definition has changed again to mean people who have lost touch with average Americans -- with the most classic example being The New Yorker film critic Pauline Kael, when she said, “I don’t understand how Nixon got elected. No one I know voted for him.”<br /><br />In the last 10 years or so, the word has come to mean “upper class” people who have nothing but disdain for average Americans. These are the people who created the term “flyover country” and see us as ignorant, superstitious hillbillies -- as compared to seeing themselves as highly enlightened. You will find a ton of these people at any big DC law firm.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-85843390545560902372009-08-03T22:49:44.986-04:002009-08-03T22:49:44.986-04:00Excellent article. Not to point fingers, but I hav...Excellent article. Not to point fingers, but I have a pretty good idea of who this might be in response to. ;) I commented over at BH that the amount of institutional hatred there of all things HP was shocking, especially by someone who proudly stated he never had and never would read the books. Uh, okay....way to make an informed opinion....but I digress.<br /><br />I've always felt that Order of the Phoenix was the best manifesto against government-run education there is. The problem is getting people to see how we've already arrived at the place OotP describes.JGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03116405895683599572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-91551018964265169662009-08-03T22:44:03.142-04:002009-08-03T22:44:03.142-04:00Oh, and Scott, FWIW, near as I can tell, elitism i...Oh, and Scott, FWIW, near as I can tell, elitism is all in the head and how much better you *think* you are than everyone else. I came from a middle-class background but ended up at an Ivy league university, and I found plenty of "average" people who were happy to join the "well-bred" and saw that school as their ticket. And I found plenty of the "well-bred" who were happy to be just "average" too. Elitism is a state of mind and people are always trying to sign up for it.CrispyRicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07302075204880024936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-10393407383744026992009-08-03T22:39:36.064-04:002009-08-03T22:39:36.064-04:00Very interesting take, Andrew, and I can't say...Very interesting take, Andrew, and I can't say I disagree. <br /><br />It's been too long since I've read them to have concrete examples, but it always struck me that Harry learned a great deal about when authority was wiser than you and you had to/should listen to it (Dumbledore, the Weasely parents) and when authority was being abusive and you should question or fight it (the Ministry, the Malfoy family.)<br /><br />Raising your children to ask questions and think for themselves isn't anti-conservative. It's raising kids who will become adults with a brain and who won't blandly accept whatever is handed to them.CrispyRicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07302075204880024936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-39037511976741840462009-08-03T22:20:38.823-04:002009-08-03T22:20:38.823-04:00Scott, you're welcome.
The movies really took...Scott, you're welcome.<br /><br />The movies really took a different path than the books after the first book. Beyond that, they're really very different.<br /><br />The problem with moral relativism, is that it's gone beyond excusing bad manners and has reached into the criminal world. Many people no make claims like "if you were raised in an abusive home, then you can't be held accountable for robbing a 7/11 ten years later." Not only is that ethically and morally wrong, but it is a recipe for chaos and spreading hatred within society. When people feel that the law will treat others differently, they lose faith in law and the whole system collapses into self-help, i.e. vigilantism.<br /><br />Let me get back to you in a few minutes on elitism.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-86049984802469615052009-08-03T22:05:22.862-04:002009-08-03T22:05:22.862-04:00THANK-YOU for this article! I must confess I'v...THANK-YOU for this article! I must confess I've only seen the films (not the most recent one) and not read the books. I had a couple general thoughts...<br /><br />--re: moral relativism - I might be totally wrong but sometimes I get the impression that we're wrong to consider root causes. Example: I lived in a dorm once. The neighbors were immature idiots who treated me like dirt and yes, I asked myself, "Why would anyone act like that? And did I do anything to cause it?" Today I realize some people are just idiots but I don't feel I was wrong for considering all the possibilities.<br /><br />--re: elitists - one day you'll have to elaborate further on this subject. I come from a middle-class suburban background so I don't have much experience in this area. What makes someone an elitist and does it apply to both political parties or just one? Is it all about money?ScottDSnoreply@blogger.com