tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post5964291559551858277..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: Film Friday: Deliverance (1972)AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-47945721912458123062010-09-10T20:33:41.802-04:002010-09-10T20:33:41.802-04:00Doc, I suppose it would be a good adventure -- ass...Doc, I suppose it would be a good adventure -- assuming no hillbillies. LOL!<br /><br /><br />Stan, Isn't that the truth!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-68894738064968023142010-09-10T19:42:14.911-04:002010-09-10T19:42:14.911-04:00Good movie. I liked the physical aspects of the f...Good movie. I liked the physical aspects of the film -- beautiful river, beautiful mountains, beautiful forrests, and a great adventure (not counting the hillbillies).Doc Whoahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16283308866886912377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-60780443700654312382010-09-10T19:30:58.970-04:002010-09-10T19:30:58.970-04:00Point taken, no where is as rural as West Virginia...Point taken, no where is as rural as West Virginia.StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-15824422167140561642010-09-10T19:20:37.507-04:002010-09-10T19:20:37.507-04:00Stan, By comparison to southern West Virginia, not...Stan, By comparison to southern West Virginia, nothing seems very rural.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-56622730958365935392010-09-10T19:15:51.105-04:002010-09-10T19:15:51.105-04:00Everybody fly’s into Atlanta, LOL! Columbus is a n...Everybody fly’s into Atlanta, LOL! Columbus is a nice town, not very rural.StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-56990047970330354832010-09-10T19:11:18.918-04:002010-09-10T19:11:18.918-04:00We flew into Atlanta (huge, huge, huge city) and d...We flew into Atlanta (huge, huge, huge city) and drove down to Columbus, Georgia where we spent a couple days interviewing witnesses. It was truly beautiful and the people were super friendly.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-85056181263913906502010-09-10T19:03:53.202-04:002010-09-10T19:03:53.202-04:00I was born in Thomasville, GA. eleven miles north ...I was born in Thomasville, GA. eleven miles north of the Florida line. Beautiful area, lots of plantations, live oaks, Spanish moss, vast farmlands, hunting, fishing, golf, good people. There are many little towns down there that look like “The Dukes of Hazzard.” The best show that depicts the South to me, was “The Andy Griffith Show.”StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-54671425402061276362010-09-10T18:45:49.567-04:002010-09-10T18:45:49.567-04:00Stan, Nice connection with "Jaws", I thi...Stan, Nice connection with "Jaws", I think you're right that both movies had a similar effect.<br /><br />You're also right about the pockets of these people, and the connection to meth these days. I've been near some of these communities in part of Appalachia -- much more north than Georgia, and there are places where you simply better not be an outsider. In a very real sense, this stereotype was true there -- only with meth replacing stills.<br /><br />But the vast, vast majority of rural America is nothing like this. Most of rural America (rich or poor) is populated by very good, friendly people.<br /><br />As an aside, I've been in way south Georgia and I was surprised how beautiful it was and how "non-rural." Though I have to admit that the town I was in (for a case) reminded me a LOT of the town from Dukes of Hazzard!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-55823764901983219522010-09-10T18:32:07.056-04:002010-09-10T18:32:07.056-04:00Awesome movie! But! As a native Georgian, I can te...Awesome movie! But! As a native Georgian, I can tell you that there are places in the hills of GA, civilized man should not venture. The poverty can be alarming, and meth, is a terrible problem. You have pockets of these poor people, that have been locked into their circumstance, the same as an urban black imprisoned in a Sec. 8 ghetto, brought to you by LBJ’s Great Society. Generations of pitiful people waiting for their government check. You see this up and down the Appalachian Mountains, or anywhere rural America. The majority are very decent, hard working, God fearing folk, that will give you the shirt off their backs, and the portrayal in “Deliverance,“ is indeed Hollywood sensationalism. As a city boy (Atlanta) after “Deliverance” it made camping in the mountains creepy, as did “Jaws,” and swimming in the ocean.StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-73421883250113747322010-09-10T17:11:25.069-04:002010-09-10T17:11:25.069-04:00Crispy, There is no evidence of a still, that is c...Crispy, There is no evidence of a still, that is correct. It is an assumption by the urbanites, though I tend to think they stumbled upon something the hillbillies wanted to keep private. For all we know, they were about to have sex with each other and they didn't want this exposed. It's hard to say because the story never tells you exactly why they are so hostile.<br /><br />But they are indeed hostile and perverted. There is doubting that. But I don't think there is any evidence that this extends to anyone beyond these two. Hence the biker analogy.<br /><br />And as for that analogy: it's not clear that there was an attack as you describe. All we know is that Ronny Cox appears to slump over before he falls in the water, which could be any number of things given that they are in the middle of the rapids. No one sees or hears a shot and there is body to look at to decide if there is a bullet hole.<br /><br />And then, when Voight encounters the guy on the hill top, he is pointing a bow and arrow at the hillbilly first. So as far as we know, the guy is just out hunting or being curious and he suddenly sees himself being attacked. I would say that's probably the real case of unjustified murder in the film -- the sodomizer being a case of self-defense.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-27753558428234841482010-09-10T17:03:39.756-04:002010-09-10T17:03:39.756-04:00Pitts, Thanks! I'm glad you liked the review....Pitts, Thanks! I'm glad you liked the review.<br /><br />I think this is one of those movies that has a lot to say, even if it doesn't seem that way at first blush -- and maybe that's a reason people are so fascinated by it. Plus, it is a very tense and interesting movie.<br /><br />I agree with you about the ending. I think it does soften the image of "rural America." In fact, if you think about it, the Sheriff goes quite easy on them for what you would expect if this whole community was the way they envision when they start to get all panicky. So maybe, in the end, the bad guys really are the urbanites?<br /><br />I'm interested in the book too, though I haven't read it. It's on my list of books I hope to get to eventually.<br /><br />The Alan Alda reference is to something people were talking about in the late 1970s, early 1980s. Alan Alda represented (to many people) a weak, effeminate male who worried about his feelings above all else. This happened at a time when many were wondering if the modern American male wasn't getting soft, weak and unmacho. There was a much discussed headline at the time (I can't remember the magazine) that was "The Alan Alda-ing of The American Male." That's what this was a reference too.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-33812002468915952082010-09-10T17:02:21.816-04:002010-09-10T17:02:21.816-04:00Not to contradict the great one here, Andrew... ;...Not to contradict the great one here, Andrew... ;) But, I don't think there is a still. They certainly don't see it. That's one of those conclusions that the urbanites jump to, which the hillbillies find insulting. But, it's not the reason the hillbillies attack, either. <br /><br />In fact, I don't see much escalation in that scene at all. I think the hillbillies' plan of action is pretty well set from the time they see the urbanites on the shore.<br /><br />This is a good summation - "What they've done in city terms is fight a guy in a bar, run away, and then kill a biker five streets away because they assumed he must be a friend of the guy in the bar because they dress the same."<br /><br />BUT, the biker 5 streets away attacks part of the group and the other part of the group kills him from afar without asking questions first.CrispyRicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07302075204880024936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-28981642834150056352010-09-10T16:51:01.845-04:002010-09-10T16:51:01.845-04:00Ah, great movie. Just like Ed said, I'm not s...Ah, great movie. Just like Ed said, I'm not sure why I like this movie, but I do. And your review sheds a lot of light on the "why". I notice the flaws in the characters every time I watch the movie, but I never thought much about what they represent.<br /><br />Also, despite the negative stereotype of the "hillbillies", the final scenes of the movie (the rescue, the group meal) portray them in a much more caring light--basically humble and decent folk.<br /><br />I'm curious now about the book. I picked up a copy once at a discount book store and never bothered to read it. It's actually on the Modern Library's list of "100 Best Novels."<br /><br />Also, I didn't get the Alan Alda reference. I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the man over the years! :-DPittsburgh Enigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06452716444698202766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-42950371206853978632010-09-10T16:47:52.325-04:002010-09-10T16:47:52.325-04:00BRE, I believe I've seen that on a shirt somew...BRE, I believe I've seen that on a shirt somewhere! LOL!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-2692420022856659362010-09-10T16:46:57.897-04:002010-09-10T16:46:57.897-04:00Crispy, The sodomizers don't randomly come acr...Crispy, The sodomizers don't randomly come across them -- the urbanites stumble upon their illegal still. . . at least that's the implication.<br /><br />But once they leave those two, they start fighting with a different group of hillbillies, and the reason they do is that Reynolds assumes that they are all related and they are being hunted by family of the two hillbillies, who are seeking revenge for what the urbanites did. But there's no reason to believe that.<br /><br />Think of it this way. What they've done in city terms is fight a guy in a bar, run away, and then kill a biker five streets away because they assumed he must be a friend of the guy in the bar because they dress the same.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-76706399219677000102010-09-10T16:40:58.121-04:002010-09-10T16:40:58.121-04:00Jed, I agree that Hollywood almost always relies o...Jed, I agree that Hollywood almost always relies on stereotyping. What I find so interesting here is the effect the stereotyping had. I really think this movie either caused (or reflected) a change in the stereotyped way that Americans view each other. I think that's significant.<br /><br />I also think its interesting that both sides are stereotyped in this. Remember that the urbanites don't come across as very nice either, and the way they behave has become a stereotype as well for how city folk act when they end up in small towns.<br /><br />If this movie had been made today, then I suspect the urbanites would have been viewed as noble, blameless liberals. Yet, in this film, I would argue that the urbanites are largely to blame for most of what happens (except for the attack by the two guys who own the still).AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-52290239499096124992010-09-10T16:39:58.643-04:002010-09-10T16:39:58.643-04:00All we want to say is --
Paddle faster! We hear ...All we want to say is --<br /><br />Paddle faster! We hear banjo music!BoilerRoomElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05560261397994768468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-81794117813320828762010-09-10T16:34:11.500-04:002010-09-10T16:34:11.500-04:00Ahh, but! The sodomizers are not the same hillbil...Ahh, but! The sodomizers are not the same hillbillies as the banjo-playing / car-driving group from the beginning. The 1st group in fact, deliver their cars with no trouble or ill-will.<br /><br />The sodomizer hillbillies sort of randomly come across the two urbanites and decide to mess with them. No, the urbanites don't come off well, but those 2 clearly don't want any trouble either. As far as that episode goes, the hillbillies start the whole thing. I will, however, grant you that I don't think it's clear at all that the 2nd hillbilly shot Cox. I find it more likely that he was feeling overwhelmed and ill and just fell into the water.CrispyRicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07302075204880024936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-17606869104727036232010-09-10T16:32:56.543-04:002010-09-10T16:32:56.543-04:00Interestingly, I recently viewed this DVD. As the ...Interestingly, I recently viewed this DVD. As the crow flies, it is not that far away from where I now live, although there is a very upscale vacation/golf resort there now called Brasstown.<br /><br />I viewed the film much less favorably than during the original theatrical run for much the reasons you point out, e.g. stereo-typing to the max. I understand that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but have come to realize that Hollywood almost always stereotypes in the same cultural way, much as they did with blacks decades ago.<br /><br />The one good thing to come out of it was some great visibility for bluegrass bango from Eric Weisburg and Marshall BrickmanTennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-11465006261991148432010-09-10T16:31:12.418-04:002010-09-10T16:31:12.418-04:00rlaWTX, I actually really like Dueling Banjos too....rlaWTX, I actually really like Dueling Banjos too. It's a great piece of music -- and it's well used in the movie.<br /><br />I recommend seeing this movie. It's a very good movie, it's very dramatic, it's well shot, and it's got a lot of interesting aspects too it.<br /><br />They recently put it in the National Film Registry as a culturally significant film and I think it deserves it. I recommend it.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-63436111908762183062010-09-10T16:28:21.416-04:002010-09-10T16:28:21.416-04:00Lawhawk, Now that you've moved to Caliente, yo...Lawhawk, Now that you've moved to Caliente, you can probably testify that the stereotype is hardly accurate for most people!<br /><br />I think remaking this with Democrats in the boat would be a great idea!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-85217300177087870572010-09-10T16:26:14.487-04:002010-09-10T16:26:14.487-04:00Crispy, That's a good question. I don't k...Crispy, That's a good question. I don't know that you could get a fair trial there either, but odds are the trial would get moved.<br /><br />I think the blame question actually goes a little deeper. Once you've started down this path, yes, they act the smart way. But from a non-legal but practical sense, I think they did cause their own problems.<br /><br />Keep in mind that their own nastiness to the hillbillies created the adversarial relationship in their heads where they saw all of the hillbillies as the enemy. It's highly unlikely that everyone in town would have been part of the illegal still and even more unlikely that they would have supported the sodomizers. But by lumping ALL of them into the same group, the urbanites turn them all into enemies and they find themselves at war with the whole community -- whether the community knows it or not.<br /><br />Remember that we never know if anyone actually shoots at Cox -- the urbanites just assume the hillbillies shot him. Also the only reason (as far as we know) that the one hillbilly shot at Voight was that he shot first. It's possible (likely) that the urbanites instigated all of this because of their paranoia -- which was fed by their attitude toward "the locals."AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-40922753930209064712010-09-10T16:25:02.128-04:002010-09-10T16:25:02.128-04:00I've never seen the movie. I have heard about ...I've never seen the movie. I have heard about it for years though (and LOVE Dueling Banjos). <br /><br />This review has, for the first time ever, made me mildly interested in seeing it.<br /><br />I have a cousin (female) who had netflixed it and when a first date came over just tossed in the movie on top - Deliverance. Oops. :-)rlaWTXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09319344164726195144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-42870330991854832172010-09-10T16:19:54.435-04:002010-09-10T16:19:54.435-04:00Ever since I moved to rural Caliente from urban Sa...Ever since I moved to rural Caliente from urban San Francisco, I've been fighting with myself. LOL<br /><br />If they ever remake the movie, they can kill two birds with one stone. Correct the lack of an African-American, and type-cast Barack Obama in the wannabe intellectual-to-the-point-of-self-destruction Cox part.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-75004850705441584242010-09-10T16:15:49.910-04:002010-09-10T16:15:49.910-04:00Interesting review, Andrew! It happens that we wa...Interesting review, Andrew! It happens that we watched this recently again, inspired by the fact the we did a lot of kayaking this summer, LOL.<br /><br />I found myself thinking that I can't really blame any of them for their actions ultimately. I can't blame Burt Reynolds for shooting the hillbilly attacking his friends, and then I can't blame them for not taking the body to town. ("Here, sorry we killed your cousin! But it was self-defense." Yeah right.) <br /><br />They definitely could've been kinder to the local people when they first met them, but some snide comments don't justify attacking someone.<br /><br />But in light of your review, though, I can't help but wonder how much of my thinking is formed by exactly those stereotypes, though. My automatic assumption is that the city-folk couldn't possibly get a fair shake in a small, backwoods town. Hmmm.CrispyRicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07302075204880024936noreply@blogger.com