tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post6396384898948852644..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: Oklahoma--OK!AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-63916930562295785382012-07-20T00:31:57.092-04:002012-07-20T00:31:57.092-04:00Indi: I don't think the administration would ...Indi: I don't think the administration would care, particularly the Obama administration. This is one of those "sounds good, looks good, won't work" propositions. The administration wouldn't portray it as a petty control issue, they would find a way to compare it to the feds entering Ol' Miss to enforce civil rights and bring a rogue state back into line with the law. It might not be true, and it might not be fair, but I know the Democrats and how well they can manipulate public opinion.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-7139586228897868382012-07-20T00:24:48.170-04:002012-07-20T00:24:48.170-04:00USSBen: Cut it and become free.USSBen: Cut it and become free.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-57204708749885209692012-07-19T23:43:57.612-04:002012-07-19T23:43:57.612-04:00Lawhawk
In the Texas case. Suppose the State of ...Lawhawk<br /><br />In the Texas case. Suppose the State of Texas told Holder. Fine, declare Texas a No Fly zone - we are calling your bluff. <br /><br />You shut down all air travel over the second largest state in the Union. You shut down one of the largest Hubs in the country in Dallas.<br /><br />Go Ahead! Then tell everyone it is over some petty control issue.<br /><br />I don't think the MSM could have put a positive spin on thatIndividualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-72298505014409888332012-07-19T21:34:40.374-04:002012-07-19T21:34:40.374-04:00I admire the chutzpah of Oklahomans however I agre...I admire the chutzpah of Oklahomans however I agree they must also get serious about transforming the propaganda dept. back to a real education dept., and everything K suggested. <br /><br />You also nailed the root of the state's problems with the feds, Lawhawk.<br />Cut the umbilical cord!USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-65906020853972172732012-07-19T17:35:09.723-04:002012-07-19T17:35:09.723-04:00rlaWTX: I agree. I know all too well that Oklaho...rlaWTX: I agree. I know all too well that Oklahoma can't succeed in this battle, but at least they made a statement. As for those damned IRS agents, even Oklahoma will have to put up with them until we repeal the Sixteenth Amendment.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-54389196780822610232012-07-19T17:17:54.878-04:002012-07-19T17:17:54.878-04:00occasionally a futile gesture is needed...occasionally a futile gesture is needed...rlaWTXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09319344164726195144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-35248704166703921732012-07-19T17:04:53.590-04:002012-07-19T17:04:53.590-04:00Indi: Another thought. The feds alone didn't...Indi: Another thought. The feds alone didn't create the problem, they merely exploited it. The states go hat-in-hand to the feds to ask for help with problems they should be solving themselves, and then complain because the feds attach conditions. If you don't take their money, they can't tell you how to govern.<br /><br />The true underlying problem is that neither side seems to have a clear concept of federalism. The states have their jobs and the feds have theirs. The federal government could not keep enlarging its tentacles if the states didn't set themselves up for it. For instance, until the states learn how to fund and efficiently run their own schools, we're never going to be able to abolish the Department of Education, an entity whose sole existence is based on the failure of the states to do their job.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-46385310585786957542012-07-19T16:55:09.497-04:002012-07-19T16:55:09.497-04:00Indi: Sounds exhausting. The one thing that I re...Indi: Sounds exhausting. The one thing that I really do like about your suggestion is refusing federal funds. Anything the feds help to fund, they can control. <br /><br />The problem is that all the states have spent decades becoming the welfare recipients of federal money and most of them would collapse if they simply stopped receiving all those juicy bucks. On the other hand, these legislators could spend their time constructively figuring out how to do their state jobs with state funds only and leave federal matters to the feds. At the national level, we have to cut the umbilical cords holding the states to the central government. <br /><br />Things are so intertwined now that it's hard to sort of what is being done by the states and what is being done by the federal government. Tenth Amendment freedom can only come after the states no longer need the feds to prop them up and bail them out.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-28406693586086185292012-07-19T16:26:28.783-04:002012-07-19T16:26:28.783-04:00Andrew and Lawhawk
The very fact the state of Okl...Andrew and Lawhawk<br /><br />The very fact the state of Oklahoma would pass legislation criminalizing the Federal government from doing its job even if it is political grandstanding puts scenarios like I suggested above in people's minds. Words are the first step to actions.<br /><br /><br />Make the arrests within five minutes of passing the law and pass a law every day.<br /><br />Refuse the funds from the Feds anyways. Matter of fact let them shut down and balme the feds...<br /><br />use this to further justify shutting down the IRS offices.<br /><br />These are the actions that would back up the words...... once dissent turns to defiance then speeches will turn to action<br /><br />We just can't imagine a state getting so fed up that they would do this .... maybe it is a fantasy.... but someone enacts it and it could cause chaos either way....Individualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-18104918602589709862012-07-19T16:13:51.451-04:002012-07-19T16:13:51.451-04:00Tennessee: Fraught with double-entendres and innu...Tennessee: Fraught with <i>double-entendres</i> and innuendo. LOLLawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-15423200417087172492012-07-19T15:28:00.656-04:002012-07-19T15:28:00.656-04:00Hawk - I love this :) Boomer Sooner!!!Hawk - I love this :) Boomer Sooner!!!Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-13834278378974864002012-07-19T14:20:49.397-04:002012-07-19T14:20:49.397-04:00Andrew: Agreed. As I said in the article " ...Andrew: Agreed. As I said in the article " I give it about five minutes before a court, any court, declares the nullification unconstitutional and issues an injunction." And then there's always the side tactic of simply cutting off funding and federal cooperation with the state on everything that relates to the legislation. In this case, federal hospital assistance funds, drug subsidies, not to mention VA facilities, could simply be cut off. You can bet Holder would do with Oklahoma exactly what it did with Texas.<br /><br />And let's not forget that the IRS has plans for how to collect taxes in the event of a thermonuclear war. I don't think a state or two rebelling would even slow them down.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-16462751288611100302012-07-19T14:15:30.525-04:002012-07-19T14:15:30.525-04:00Indi: Great fantasy, but [un]fortunately the Cons...Indi: Great fantasy, but [un]fortunately the Constitution and precedent would squelch those actions before they could even get started. That's what the amendment process is all about, and without the consent of the supermajority majority of states and the people thereof, it won't happen.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-12226017770713557782012-07-19T14:11:29.018-04:002012-07-19T14:11:29.018-04:00Indi, Sorry, wrong. That's not how the law wor...Indi, Sorry, wrong. That's not how the law works. The US Attorney will sue to stop the law from being enforce within a day or two after it passes. It will take 3-4 legal hours to prepare the motion and appear in court. The judge will grant the injunction. The law is dead.<br /><br />All the rest is pure fantasy.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-82156679206624167622012-07-19T14:06:02.730-04:002012-07-19T14:06:02.730-04:00Andrew
You may be right about this being a futile...Andrew<br /><br />You may be right about this being a futile action but there is a strategy that I think can create some real political effect although it is "disruptive".<br /><br />We pass these laws then we hit the IRS office during lunch and make arrests. Let them out on bail but force the individuals and the federal government to go through the mothins of hiring legal counsel, fighting this in court, etc.<br /><br />Furthermore since these are criminal matters you can make arrests based on each little action t people have to do. this makes for many cases to defend agaisnt. Force the court to look at each different fucntion separately.<br /><br />Then once this law is thrown down. write another one and another one and keep up the pressure. Keep interfering with the people that have to do this work and make everything a legal nightmare in court. Don't settle. The idea is to obstruct the federal government.<br /><br />You can even expand this strategy to other things. for instance make it illegal for any agency other than an apporved Oklahoma state agency to collect medical inforamtion. refuse to share it with the feds and keep poor records so that even when the data is forced to be turned over it is incomplete.<br /><br />Create enough red tape and the Fed may have to eventually cry uncle. Dirty yes but this is how you should treat people that pass laws they don't bother to read.Individualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-31457051179384063492012-07-19T14:03:38.414-04:002012-07-19T14:03:38.414-04:00tryanmax: I partially address that issue in my co...tryanmax: I partially address that issue in my comments to Patriot. It can be done, if Republicans will just quit getting side-tracked and put their efforts into legislation that can actually survive. But simply abandoning the field to the liberals has been the far more common practice.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-31177018510648771472012-07-19T14:01:03.210-04:002012-07-19T14:01:03.210-04:00Patriot: Even in California, things can get done ...Patriot: Even in California, things can get done if conservatives have the will to do so. Ward Connerly was a Regent of the University of California who decided that affirmative action didn't belong in the schools. He pushed, and pushed, and pushed, and ultimately produced the California Civil Rights Initiative which banned racial quotas from hiring at the universities and colleges. It has been a model for legislation in many other states, and has survived all the court challenges. If he could do that in California, imagine what Republicans could do in Oklahoma if they set their minds to it.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-86188839364567728942012-07-19T13:57:23.989-04:002012-07-19T13:57:23.989-04:00Patriot: I don't know how the state universit...Patriot: I don't know how the state university and college system works in Oklahoma, but here in California, the Board of Regents of the University of California and the Trustees of the California State Universities and Colleges have tremendous power over curriculum and staffing. Sadly, we also have an electorate which leans almost as far left as the schools so we get continuing leftist indoctrination in the schools. In Oklahoma, they have a Republican majority which it seems to me ought to be exercising its power over the schools. That would be a far more useful effort than passing legislation that doesn't have a chance of surviving.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89938621051282996512012-07-19T13:53:08.912-04:002012-07-19T13:53:08.912-04:00Andrew: Yield to temptation. If we can distract ...Andrew: Yield to temptation. If we can distract them with useless gestures by posing as leftist activists, we can get on with doing the people's business while they're not looking. Recruit me--I know all the tricks.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-32915617137150825482012-07-19T13:51:16.005-04:002012-07-19T13:51:16.005-04:00K: Excellent suggestions, all. I was having some...K: Excellent suggestions, all. I was having some fun reviewing the actions in Oklahoma, but they really do need to get down to serious business that at least has a chance of surviving a court test.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-15858994432031557962012-07-19T13:49:10.992-04:002012-07-19T13:49:10.992-04:00Tryanmax: Ah, peace on the prairie.Tryanmax: Ah, peace on the prairie.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-78848812242955223522012-07-19T13:41:41.153-04:002012-07-19T13:41:41.153-04:00K....a little leftist jujitsu huh?! Turn their own...K....a little leftist jujitsu huh?! Turn their own strategery back against them. I like it!!<br /><br />Especially the university approach. Recruit high profile "conservative thinking" professors and announce to the world the creation of a top notch program. Look at George Mason University's Economics program. Remember who was the Chairman there for a while.....yep, Dr. Walter Williams...... Right in the belly of the Beast too! They are putting out some highly creative economic solutions and programs.....Mercator Institute as an example ( Mercatus.org )Veronique de Rugy is one of the clearest thinkers around and someone who can explain complex economic issues in simple, layman's terms.<br /><br />Unfortunately, many at Mason still hew to the old way of thinking... African and African American Studies; Collaborative Leadership in Community Studies; Global and Environmental Change...you get the picture.<br /><br />It would be nice to have more Hillsdale type colleges that could be recognized as "World-Class"Patriothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01533169053860540075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-64932247559129607332012-07-19T13:07:53.308-04:002012-07-19T13:07:53.308-04:00K, Nicely done. But why do something effective wh...K, Nicely done. But why do something effective when we can raise funds by suckering people with futile gestures? It's so much easier. And best of all, it will never solve the problem so you can keep fighting about it year after year.<br /><br />This is the problem with so many conservative politicians. I don't know if they're just retards or if they truly are this cynical, but laws like this Obamacare thing are useless -- 0.0% chance of success. Yet they keep pushing idiocy like this rather than real solutions because it gets the fringe all excited and they fall in love with these ideas rather than spending their time coming up with a useful plan.<br /><br />I am often temped to create a leftist party and come up with stupid ideas like this in the hopes of keeping them from working on anything more useful.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-86587703432516774572012-07-19T13:07:35.500-04:002012-07-19T13:07:35.500-04:00I think that Huskers and Sooners have put their di...I think that Huskers and Sooners have put their differences aside for the time being, so yes. Of course, if we ever end up in the same conference again...tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-31006424336869187882012-07-19T12:59:20.705-04:002012-07-19T12:59:20.705-04:00tryanmax: I'm sure JG knows it was tongue-in-...tryanmax: I'm sure JG knows it was tongue-in-cheek. It was, wasn't it?LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.com