tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post6852692316276593555..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: Commentarama Readers Define ConservatismAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-52625426504651878252009-11-20T20:57:06.545-05:002009-11-20T20:57:06.545-05:00Thanks Individualist.
You ask an excellent questi...Thanks Individualist.<br /><br />You ask an excellent question. I suspect that our problem is a combination of things.<br /><br />I think there is a sense that we've "been had" too many times before to give up anything until they fix the other problems. In other words, I think that the public has learned that it can't trust the politicians on this issue. So once a politician starts talking about a guest worker program, everyone immediately assumes they're up to something. Thus, everyone comes down on them like a ton of bricks, not for what they're proposing, but for what we think they're really up to.<br /><br />Secondly, I think that this issue is often dominated by the fringe elements. I think you've got the people who want to stop all immigration on one side, and those who want to legalize everyone on the other, and they both do their best to attack anything that isn't 100% of what they want. That poisons the debate.<br /><br />These two factors make it very hard to reach reasonable solutions, even if the public at large accepts them. It's like fixing social security. We all know it needs to be done, but no one wants to be the one to touch that electric wire.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-10064623124375280342009-11-20T18:56:24.217-05:002009-11-20T18:56:24.217-05:00"only 11% of you thought conservatives should..."only 11% of you thought conservatives should oppose guest worker programs that bring foreigners to the United States to fill certain jobs."<br /><br />Andrew great analysis all around.....<br /><br />Specifically I am wondering if we are having trouble in the mass media illustrating our message as it concerns illegal immigration. <br /><br />Case in point your statement above. It seems to me that whenever a conservative politician starts to promote their support for a guest worker program they immediately get saddled by other pundits in consevative circles with the admonistions that this is the democrats gateway to amnesty. <br /><br /><br />Is it possible there is a disconnect in our message that needs improving? Just a thought.Individualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-53467728009347533372009-11-20T15:02:07.361-05:002009-11-20T15:02:07.361-05:00JG, I didn't go too much into foreign policy d...JG, I didn't go too much into foreign policy due to space restrictions and because most of it is too situation-specific to be meaningful in this kind of broad survey.<br /><br />Where we did touch upon it, our readers rejected isolationism. First, they support free trade overwhelmingly (91%). And only 20% felt that we should cut foreign aid entirely.<br /><br />Moreover, if you add in the limited support for keeping out legal immigrants, I think a picture starts to emerge of a group of people who overwhelmingly reject the kind of isolationism that Paul supporters advocate.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-57028556508814371842009-11-20T14:52:49.689-05:002009-11-20T14:52:49.689-05:00One thing I did notice, though, was the (apparent)...One thing I did notice, though, was the (apparent) absence of foreign policy issues. There are a lot of people - usually Paulites, but some others as well - who see America as needing to be more isolationist in her foreign policy, scale down defense spending (because that's "spending money we don't have" and "can't be conservative") or perhaps change alliances (such as the idea that we need to break ties with Israel and that will miraculously bring peace in the Middle East). Was that in the original polling sample or did I just imagine that?JGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03116405895683599572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-16394189123469833062009-11-20T14:13:42.817-05:002009-11-20T14:13:42.817-05:00JG, I've had the same experience whenever I...JG, I've had the same experience whenever I've interacted with large numbers of Republicans. I've found them to be much more varied than people believe. The problem for the party is that the media portrays them as mindless drones, and some of the party leaders exploit that to make their issues seem more important.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-59261862572054660542009-11-20T13:55:34.606-05:002009-11-20T13:55:34.606-05:00Broken record, but yes, very interesting. I am sur...Broken record, but yes, very interesting. I am surprised by the order of the "priorities," but not by the nuance of them (i.e. law-breakers vs. all immigrants). This reflects my own experience within the Republican party, even here in the reddest of red states (according to the 2008 election). And yes, as others have already pointed out, the abortion issue needs to be fleshed out.JGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03116405895683599572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-86991202587306373362009-11-20T13:26:16.949-05:002009-11-20T13:26:16.949-05:00Lawhawk, The nuance made me happy because that tel...Lawhawk, The nuance made me happy because that tells me that our readers are thinkers! :-)<br /><br />Abortion is one of the areas that I agree needs further exploration. There is a good deal of ambiguity in the second question. As you note, there are questions of funding. There are also questions about personal view versus political view, and what types of restrictions people would agree to or not, etc. That's definitely one of the three or four areas where I would like to dig a little deeper.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-73718808760618400392009-11-20T13:16:16.249-05:002009-11-20T13:16:16.249-05:00Andrew: Overall, I didn't find the results to...Andrew: Overall, I didn't find the results too surprising, but as you said, pleasantly nuanced. We've mentioned the "80% Reagan formula" several times on this site in relation to losing elections because of insistence on doctrinal purity. The poll seems to indicate that among our readers, that need for purity is not as stong as it might be among some other groups of conservatives.<br /><br />I know it's a hot button issue, but I think we do indeed need to address abortion a bit more specifically. For example, opposition to federal abortion laws is a solid conservative position, but it doesn't tell us how many of those same conservatives want to restrict "on demand" abortions at the state level. In my case, a principled pro-lifer who makes exceptions for rape, incest and the physical health of the mother is acceptable. But any funding for abortion or support of late-term abortions is a deal-breaker for me. And even at that, if the liberal candidate is typically pro-abortion, I'm not going to vote against the otherwise conservative but "pro-choice" candidate to "register a protest," but I'm not going to actively support the candidate either.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-12686656398216800692009-11-20T12:26:34.508-05:002009-11-20T12:26:34.508-05:00Could be Patti. I haven't seen any polling br...Could be Patti. I haven't seen any polling broken down by state. Still, whenever you get into the mid- to high- 60% range in public opinion, that's a pretty clear result.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-22128764763434908512009-11-20T12:22:12.271-05:002009-11-20T12:22:12.271-05:00i think the immigration numbers would be higher in...i think the immigration numbers would be higher in border states, as we are the ones dealing in the reality of how it impacts our daily life. and we still call them by their proper name here in texas: ILLEGALS! they needs to go.pattihttp://www.notawonk.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-39074057687730555962009-11-20T11:30:45.479-05:002009-11-20T11:30:45.479-05:00Freedom is definitely a consistent theme.Freedom is definitely a consistent theme.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-13589178470980026532009-11-20T11:13:22.889-05:002009-11-20T11:13:22.889-05:00Conservatism means freedom! You find lockstep myrm...Conservatism means freedom! You find lockstep myrmidons in the democrat party.StanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-63954397803449669422009-11-20T10:40:48.973-05:002009-11-20T10:40:48.973-05:00USArtguy, You're welcome.
I agree. This is v...USArtguy, You're welcome.<br /><br />I agree. This is very comforting to me too because it shows that we do use our brains and we don't meld our opinions or beliefs just to please the crowd.<br /><br />By the way, that's a very astute quote from Reagan. If you're waiting for the person who agrees with you 100%, you'll never find them.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-13225378228491264772009-11-20T10:25:53.705-05:002009-11-20T10:25:53.705-05:00I just heard this quote the other day for the firs...I just heard this quote the other day for the first time:<br />"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor." -Ronald Reagan<br /><br />Thanks for doing this poll and analyzing the results. I always knew that conservatives weren't the mob marching in lockstep (an oxymoron to be sure) that the Left and the MSM portray us to be. So, for me, this is not so much proof as it is reassurance and a confidence booster.USArtguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06062334713741697082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-37096877508190286212009-11-20T09:57:02.830-05:002009-11-20T09:57:02.830-05:00You're welcome Writer X. I couldn't resis...You're welcome Writer X. I couldn't resist taking a deeper look.<br /><br />It's fascinating to me that we aren't by any stretch of the imagination the unthinking, group thinkers that the media likes to portray us. Not only were the views varied, but people made very interesting distinctions, and immigration is one of those areas.<br /><br />I think this should also remind us that when two people say "conservative", they don't necessarily mean the same thing.<br /><br />By the way, the idea that we're not opposed to immigrants, but are opposed to illegal aliens, is entirely consistent with recent polling on the issue by the big polling companies.<br /><br />(Immigration is an issue I still need to discuss on my Rebuilding the Republican Party series.)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-17060246183027289182009-11-20T09:45:10.788-05:002009-11-20T09:45:10.788-05:00Andrew, thanks for analyzing these poll results. ...Andrew, thanks for analyzing these poll results. I was very interested in the results concerning illegal immigration. The results are very similar to polling in Arizona--law breakers vs. illegal aliens.Writer Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16505411188186283813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-54584620126883821582009-11-20T09:35:24.846-05:002009-11-20T09:35:24.846-05:00I thought it was interest too Jed -- though I'...I thought it was interest too Jed -- though I've seen for some time that there is a great deal of disagreement on some issues.<br /><br />In any event, it certainly shows that conservatives have a variety of opinions, even if it's not a large enough sample to make conclusions about the population at large.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-9260238050782045352009-11-20T09:28:55.633-05:002009-11-20T09:28:55.633-05:00Interesting results, although, I suppose, by stati...Interesting results, although, I suppose, by statistician standards the sampling is too small to hold significance. It is interesting to me to see thedivergence on some issues since we have all, at times, talked about our basic "sameness" at this site. If you care to, it would be interesting to get some idea how many samples you got outside of what I will refer to for lack of a better term, the core group of people who have signed up to "follow" this site. I, for one, would welcome you continuing your quest with further bite sized samples of the many questions you wanted to ask.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.com