tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post8844747026050534826..comments2023-09-15T04:27:57.129-04:00Comments on Commentarama: Democratic Wedge IssuesAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-84703831537184864722012-06-03T19:14:54.893-04:002012-06-03T19:14:54.893-04:001. I agree that some of the rhetoric is ugly and t...1. I agree that some of the rhetoric is ugly and the sort of thing a white person would get called for. <br /><br />A lot of the people using that rhetoric just clown themselves though (nods towards the NFL players comparing themselves to slaves). <br /><br />Interracial relationships are a matter of debate within the black community, but quite a few are proceeding with them (more men then women) and catching little to no flack.<br /><br />As for the negative behaviors often attached to 'acting black' smart and even not so smart people recognize their ridiculousness. On a related note, have you ever seen Chappelle's hilarious but extremely NSFW 'When Keeping it Real Goes Wrong' sketches?<br /><br />http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/t0brk3/chappelle-s-show-when-keeping-it-real-goes-wrong---vernon-franklin<br /><br />2. I ran into a few of the types you mentioned in college, but only a few (though there were only 40 black students at my school so a few translated into 12%).<br /><br />3. Nobody who lives/works/studies in the upper strata of American society can do so solely surrounded by one ethnic group, so while contact with non-blacks doesn't necessarily cure idiocy (after all there are whites who subscribe to that idiocy), a lack of contact won't be a problem future black leaders suffer from.<br /><br />Also, I suspect the heights risen to men like Obama (who plays the game a little bit differently than old school Civil Rights leaders) will translate into more black leaders who aspire to more than 'merely' leading the black community.<br /><br />Yeah, I can respect disagreeing with Thomas, but calling him an idiot or an Uncle Tom is just plain nutty. Its a shame that many people in the black community habitually diminish people on the other side that way.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-40045436029695994902012-06-03T13:39:40.713-04:002012-06-03T13:39:40.713-04:00Anthony, What I find disheartening are:
1. That ...Anthony, What I find disheartening are:<br /><br />1. That so many blacks can speak so openly about someone not being "black enough", calling things like interracial marriage (or adoption) "genocide", attacking blacks who are successful in everyday fields "sell outs" or "Uncle Tom" and saying things like "we can't succeed because whites won't let us". And even worse, they say these things openly in magazines, on the radio, in hip hop songs, in speeches at award shows, in legal journals, in college classes.... and nobody challenges them.<br /><br />Blacks would freak out if whites said these things and no one called them on it.<br /><br />2. Related to your point about more-positive people moving into the leadership positions, when I was in law school, I met a lot of very privileged black kids. These were the sons and daughters of doctors and lawyers, kids who never worked a day in their lives but had lots of money, nice cars, nice clothes, kids who had been helped along every step of the way through college. These are people with nothing to complain about. Yet, they were fiercely anti-white and deeply racist. They routinely talked about "being held down by whites" and how whites "owed" them x, y, or z, and who everything the western world has was stolen from blacks.<br /><br />If you stuck in the word "Jew" instead of "white", the things these kids said to each other and to us (when they associated with us) would have fit right in with Hitler in the 1930s.<br /><br />I am worried that these are the people who will take over the leadership and that they are even worse that the Civil-Rights Era leaders because at least the CRE leaders worked with whites to solve problems like Jim Crow. These kids had no such experience.<br /><br /><br />You are right about people mocking those on the other side and that's too bad. But in a community like the black community, where they have so few role models as it is already, they should be much more careful about tearing people down just because they don't agree with their politics.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-89990740957861949132012-06-03T07:20:02.596-04:002012-06-03T07:20:02.596-04:00Jim Crow ended more than a decade before I was bor...Jim Crow ended more than a decade before I was born, but those who lived through it (and though who fought to end it, which often meant subjecting themselves to Jim Crow in its worst forms) tend to have a more pessimistic view of race relations that I do. <br /><br />I don't believe they are seeing a truth I'm not, I believe they are seeing the ghost of something that no longer is (some of them are cynically using racism as a cloak for criminality, many are probably that pessimistic). <br /><br />By virtue of their past activism in the Civil Rights movement, many such people are in positions of authority. Time will bring people will more positive experiences and positive views to positions of prominence.<br /><br />Moving on to your next point, I remember questions about whether Williams was black enough, but the ones I heard were in reference to his backgroud and demeanor (he was seen as a bow tied accountant), not his skin color. Of the top of my head, names like Malcolm X (the most high profile militant black leader), Frederick Douglas (the first) and Ben Jealous (current leader of the NAACP) indicate that racial purity has never been a big obsession of the black community. <br /><br />Which isn't to say that interracial relationships are universally popular, but there's no stigma attached to being the child of such a relationship.<br /><br />And its worth mentioning that Williams easily won his first race because a big chunk of DC didn't want Marion Barry part 2 (the fact that Congress would have never let such a man have power helped).<br /><br />Last but not least, Thomas is arguably the most conservative member of the Supreme Court. It would be strange if the most liberal community in America celebrated him. <br /><br />If you are on the wrong side of the divide, people won't celebrate you or your achievements but mock you and pray for your failure (nods towards conservative websites dancing on the ashes of Oprah's commercial ambitions). Its kind of sad, but its human nature.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-31465347452801558712012-06-02T00:28:08.960-04:002012-06-02T00:28:08.960-04:00Anthony, I would agree with that and that's wh...Anthony, I would agree with that and that's why I don't really worry about fringe groups like the New Black Panthers -- you'll notice I've never bothered writing about them myself.<br /><br />I also doubt that most blacks consider Sharpton, Jackson and the goofballs in Congress as their leaders. When I say "black leaders", I tend to think of this large collection of religious leaders, a smattering of entertainers, and local politicians -- big city mayors, famous council members. (The Nation of Islam is an exception as they are more like a cult unto themselves.)<br /><br />The problem I see with this group is that they use racism as an excuse to cover their own failures and crimes. Thus, when a black big city mayor gets caught taking a bribe, he screams racism. And when the city goes bankrupt because they mismanage the budgets year after year, they scream racism. I've seen black pastors who got caught stealing church funds do this, big city mayors, school administrators, etc. Every time, they scream "white plot to destroy blacks" the moment they get caught, and unfortunately, a great many other black politicians, black reporters, and celebrities jump on board and automatically defend them.<br /><br />Then you get black college professors who run around preaching liberation theology and critical race theory, who preach that it's impossible for black to succeed with whitey in charge, who claim that blacks can't be blamed for their own conduct, and who claim that blacks can't be racist by definition no matter how racist they behave. They also do things like cite statistics about the number of blacks in jail and claim the justice system is out to get them but conveniently omit that it's usually black juries who convict black defendants.<br /><br />All of this adds up to create a siege mentality and a sense that blacks are not responsible for their own actions.<br /><br />Then you have the specter of "black enough." You're in the DC area, right? So you probably remember how they savaged Williams when he first ran for Mayor as not being "black enough". People actually called into the radio and questioned whether a man with his light skin color "could represent" blacks... and no one called them on this kind of thinking! Since that time, I've seen this over and over where whisper campaigns are created against black politicians who "sell out" or become "Uncle Tom's" just because they try to do their jobs right.<br /><br />Look at how they've treat Clarence Thomas. The man is honestly brilliant and should be held up as an icon of achievement, yet they openly mock him as a supposed moron.<br /><br />That's the problem we face with the black leadership. It's not the couple idiots at the top, it's this middle layer of thousands of notable figures who all use racism as an excuse to explain away their own failures and who have bought into this idea that blacks are not responsible for their own actions.<br /><br />Those are the people we need to expose as frauds, so that average blacks stop believing their lies.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-10849860482888398852012-06-02T00:00:54.062-04:002012-06-02T00:00:54.062-04:00Andrew said:
you need to shake their faith in the...Andrew said:<br /><br />you need to shake their faith in their leaders. <br />----<br />I think A) there's little faith in most of the leadership and B) the term leader is applied too generously.<br /><br />To be Christened a black leader by the media, you need to A) be a guy who was involved in the civil rights movement or B ) win elected office or C) be willing to talk crazy. <br /><br />Its sad how many crazy talkers will little apparent support show up in the media as the 'voice' of blacks. The New Black Panthers are media darlings but the biggest event they ever held attracted 6,000 people back in 1998. But they are media savy and willing to offer colorful soundbites so they are everywhere.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-18951366338983198622012-06-01T23:42:46.844-04:002012-06-01T23:42:46.844-04:00obiwan said:
Regarding the race issue, someone ju...obiwan said:<br /><br />Regarding the race issue, someone just needs to grasp and put the facts out straight that there's more damage within racial groups nowadays than there is without, just as Bill Cosby mentioned years ago, and pissed off the media in the process.<br />------<br />Its not the entire media that got offended, it was some black leaders and intellectuals. Some accused him of 'blaming the victim' some acknowledged he was right but said it at the wrong time (though of course he didn't say anything anyone with two brain cells to rub together already knew). I thought it was heartening that Cosby didn't become persona non grata in the black community.<br /><br />I think it helped that A) he is clearly right B) he is active in the community and puts his money where his mouth is C) his most vehemenent critics are guys like Toure and Dyson who are big presences on tv but who don't actually do anything constructive and D) he didn't follow that up by announcing he was becoming a Republican (there is a lot of tolerance of idealogical variance in the black community, but little tolerance of Republicans, something which I hope will change).Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-39791165840588512272012-06-01T18:44:48.955-04:002012-06-01T18:44:48.955-04:00obiwan, There is certainly room for multiple strat...obiwan, There is certainly room for multiple strategies, and I think what Romney is doing is excellent politics for winning people over.<br /><br />But that said, I think there is a real opportunity to break up the Democrats and soften the opposition through the wedge strategies above. I wouldn't recommend Romney be beating these drums because it would make him look back. Instead, this is the sort of thing conservative surrogates need to start pushing, with the idea because to sow chaos and dissent among the Democrats while simultaneously trying to win over smaller portions of these groups on issue after issue.<br /><br />Basically, it would be two separate strategies running simultaneously. And together they would be much more effective than either alone.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-6844863325803378572012-06-01T18:33:57.642-04:002012-06-01T18:33:57.642-04:00Andrew, I do agree about the leaders part, but my ...Andrew, I do agree about the leaders part, but my feeling is that a general template is to be found in the inclusive approach - somewhat exemplified by Romney's address at a Hispanic conference, he mentioned issues that by his mentioning, are problematic in America, but left it to the audience to think about how they as Americans, are also affected by it.<br /><br />Outside of politics, there's the important regular good christian routine of being all-around great and showing that you really don't care all that much about the differences someone else may have in comparison to you. Again, the demonstration, and really coming to like and not being afraid of the person are the hardest parts here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-87186389854367118442012-06-01T18:09:16.160-04:002012-06-01T18:09:16.160-04:00obiwan, I think that's right about Jews. But ...obiwan, I think that's right about Jews. But they also have a Democratic tradition which needs to be overcome and I think exposing the antisemitism of the left would go a long way toward breaking that link. <br /><br />On the race issue, the problem is that as with cults, their leaders have managed to put in place a huge defense mechanism -- the cry of racism. Basically, it lets them tell "their people" to ignore all messages the leaders want them to ignore by claiming that those messages are lies promoted by racists who want to destroy them.<br /><br />It's the same way cults teach their followers that all contrary evidence is from the Devil or is produced by non-believers who are trying to trick them away from "the truth." When you can get people believing that sort of thing, then it becomes really hard to get through to them with just facts... you need to shake their faith in their leaders.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-5984465188209854712012-06-01T17:38:45.063-04:002012-06-01T17:38:45.063-04:00The main issue with Jews is that they cover a broa...The main issue with Jews is that they cover a broad spectrum in terms of belief and identity. Some Jews are mostly secular, but wish to still claim the cultural identity. While others feel more inclined to genuinely believe in the religion. It's a long, complex continuum following that. The main point I am making is that Judaism is comparable to religion in general in that individuals who believe it may be highly religious, highly secular, and in between. The big message to bring out is that if political action can target another religious group, it can easily also target you.<br /><br />Regarding the race issue, someone just needs to grasp and put the facts out straight that there's more damage within racial groups nowadays than there is without, just as Bill Cosby mentioned years ago, and pissed off the media in the process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-60218008250461398872012-05-31T18:45:40.293-04:002012-05-31T18:45:40.293-04:00Indi, I think that's accurate.
In my experien...Indi, I think that's accurate.<br /><br />In my experience, the people who are able to do it on their own want no part of affirmative action because (1) they really do want to succeed on their own merits and (2) they hate the stigma that attached to everyone in the group.<br /><br />The people at the bottom of the heap who really need help can't make use of it either because they are both completely unsuited and unqualified for the job and they don't know how to exploit the program.<br /><br />Finally, the people who end up using it are by and large those with little skill for the job itself, but with strong skills at making trouble, i.e. the worst possible people. They basically force their way into the jobs under threat of legal action and then entrench themselves.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-88523003305994253072012-05-31T18:33:00.258-04:002012-05-31T18:33:00.258-04:00rlaWTX and DUQ, I was frankly surprised they charg...rlaWTX and DUQ, I was frankly surprised they charged him with anything, but now that they have I'm just enjoying the show. I haven't really looked at what he supposedly did.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-62732744816036844302012-05-31T18:12:42.297-04:002012-05-31T18:12:42.297-04:00Andrew
As an aside I really wish we could somehow...Andrew<br /><br />As an aside I really wish we could somehow explain to people that affirmative action just does not work. Your comment about it helping white women is a symptom of the problem but I think it ignores a deeper truth. These are white women that probably would have reached the same goal had they bit had access to the government hand out anyways. Maybe not as quickly but most probably get to the same rung of the ladder anyways.<br /><br />This is best put forth by a book on affirmative action that I read by Thomas Sowell called "Preferential Policies..." That is the start of the title I don't remember the rest.<br /><br />In this book he talks of preferential "affirmative action" style policies enacted in India in the 1920's by the British Government. (That's right AA is another european socialist idea progressives conned us into trying). In India people were really hampered by the caste system especially the "untouchables". So the British government put policies in place to help them. The thing was that there were may different untouchabkle castes, too many for the bureacracy to address so the amalgamated them all under the same system. As it turned out the individuals that were able to take advantage of the program were those at the upper rung of the lower end of the ladder. While the lower end the truly needy ones were never able to make the transition.<br /><br />Sowell makes the argument that AA does not help anyone that was not already in the running to overncome their circumstance. Those truly in need and impoverished will never be able to take advantage of the program due to lack of education or living conditions.<br /><br />Unfortunately there just is no way to summarize this idea into a 10 word or less soundbite that I can think of.Individualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-76528260596898870212012-05-31T17:20:12.256-04:002012-05-31T17:20:12.256-04:00That's what happens when you try to put Damien...That's what happens when you try to put Damien Thorn on trial. He is the son of the Devil after all.DUQnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-88225956124536597802012-05-31T17:16:28.219-04:002012-05-31T17:16:28.219-04:00I saw they were deadlocked on the rest...I saw they were deadlocked on the rest...rlaWTXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09319344164726195144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-54157126989220292902012-05-31T16:46:18.855-04:002012-05-31T16:46:18.855-04:00DUQ, I'm not surprised they agreed to a not gu...DUQ, I'm not surprised they agreed to a not guilty. They probably decided pretty quickly that one of the charges was just way too much. Now they're arguing over the rest.<br /><br />I still think he'll be convicted on the haircut and the Thorn charge.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-84408086710189264112012-05-31T16:33:50.814-04:002012-05-31T16:33:50.814-04:00Edwards is NOT guilty on the first count. No word...Edwards is NOT guilty on the first count. No word about the haircuts or looking like Damien Thorn.DUQnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-46319135726491340612012-05-31T15:23:48.346-04:002012-05-31T15:23:48.346-04:00tryanmax, Yep. Tax Articletryanmax, Yep. <a href="http://commentarama.blogspot.com/2011/11/right-tax-hikes.html" rel="nofollow">Tax Article</a>AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-86177872123504245072012-05-31T15:18:35.803-04:002012-05-31T15:18:35.803-04:00Andrew, do you have any past articles on the incom...Andrew, do you have any past articles on the income tax deduction?tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-50757502879502464262012-05-31T15:11:55.097-04:002012-05-31T15:11:55.097-04:00I hear the haircut charge carries a life sentence....I hear the haircut charge carries a life sentence. ;)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-6754418242735094652012-05-31T15:10:07.215-04:002012-05-31T15:10:07.215-04:00Word is Edwards will be found guilty of receiving ...Word is Edwards will be found guilty of receiving illegal campaign contributions and having outrageously expensive haircuts, but mostly receiving illegal campaign contributions.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-74192999279407133522012-05-31T15:05:04.285-04:002012-05-31T15:05:04.285-04:00The John Edward jury has reach a verdict on one co...The John Edward jury has reach a verdict on one count. I wasn't interested before, but now I'm dying of curiosity.DUQnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-74268198758119502842012-05-31T14:44:30.028-04:002012-05-31T14:44:30.028-04:00T-Rav, The Great Society is the perfect example of...T-Rav, The Great Society is the perfect example of what happens when the government steps in to help people -- it creates dependence and destroys the values those people need to ever be independent again.<br /><br />It's the same with whites now in poor areas and overseas in places like Britain. And it was the same with businesses in Eastern Europe.<br /><br />You can't make people independent by making them dependent.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-48198084356213778502012-05-31T14:39:37.770-04:002012-05-31T14:39:37.770-04:00tryanmax, I agree and I'm not saying write any...tryanmax, I agree and I'm not saying write anybody off. What I am saying is that we need to create a weening-off for the medium term and a cut-off for the long term, except in truly needy circumstances. We also need to create these ramps so that no one feels trapped.<br /><br />Some examples of things that need to change. Disability needs to be made harder to get. Right now it's way too easy to get it without having any genuine disability.<br /><br />There needs to be a time limit on welfare.<br /><br />Unemployment should reduce over time and needs to be trimmed back from 99 weeks.<br /><br />Medicare/Medicaid needs to be about needed care. Right now they pay for things that are elective like sex changes, ED treatments, and some cosmetic procedures. They need to strip all of that kind of garbage out.<br /><br />College loans needs to be trimmed severely. If colleges still want kids, let them lower their tuition or hand out grants.<br /><br />They need to end the subsidy on school lunches.<br /><br />End corporate welfare.<br /><br />Federal assistance for home heating and energy costs need to end, as do tax breaks/subsidies for homeowners to go green.<br /><br />These are just some example where people are getting used to living off the government.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4425587034622601550.post-8146714217062874862012-05-31T14:37:14.596-04:002012-05-31T14:37:14.596-04:00Andrew and tryanmax, Jonah Goldberg makes an inter...Andrew and tryanmax, Jonah Goldberg makes an interesting point in "Liberal Fascism" about the black community. Back in the '70s or thereabouts, in the wake of LBJ's "Great Society" (now there's something that should have a double set of quotes), lower-class African-American households were among the very last to start signing up for welfare benefits. This may have been partly due to racism, but a lot of it was the self-respect these households had for themselves; they were too proud to accept such handouts. Eventually, though, the government won them over by promising it would help out their children down the road. And look where we are now--Newt Gingrich mentions "welfare queens" and instantly gets accused of racism, because what else could such a term refer to besides a black woman? Great job, government.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.com