Tuesday, September 13, 2011

Thoughts On Yet Another Debate

You may not know this, but there was a Republican debate last night -- between plays of the Dolphins-Patriots atrocity. Seriously, who schedules a debate during Monday Night Football? Not to mention, it's only been six days since the last one. Anyway, here are some thoughts on the debate.

Up With (these) People: This group of candidates continues to impress. They mixed it up nicely, they made great points and they defended themselves well. It was a very spirited debate, but only rarely felt negative. There was also an awful lot of conservative philosophy discussed and explained last night. This was good for conservatism all around.

The Hermanator: Herm is on fire! He was strong, credible, and made great points about the need to fundamentally remake our government. His advocacy of fixing Social Security by copying Chile’s model is fantastic. His 9/9/9 plan (9% income tax, 9% corporate tax, and 9% sales tax) is also great. I would absolutely choose him for VP at this point (or P).

BullsEye of Newt: Newt was on fire too. He made excellent points all night, exposed a lot of mushy liberal-like thinking, and kept the attack focused on Obama. His best point came when the governors started arguing about who created more jobs. Newt reminded everyone that the government doesn’t create jobs. . . the private sector does.

Insane in the Membrane: Ron Paul continues to raise legitimate issues we should be considering. . . then he veers off into crazytown. For example, last night, he raised the question of whether or not our foreign policy, in particular having troops all over the world and trying to fight ground wars against Islamic terrorism, are working. Those are valid questions that need to be asked. But then he advocated total isolationism on the theory that if we bury our heads in the sand, everyone will leave us alone. Um, no. Paul also killed himself with all but his most devoted followers by saying we brought 9/11 on ourselves and suggesting we bombed civilians in Iraq. In truth, he was making a more subtle point than that -- he was pointing out what al Qaeda itself claims as a motive -- but he picked the wrong time for a subtle discussion on a very emotional issue.

Codename: Secret Liberal: Huntsman speaks in code. Last night he advocated "bringing in more workers" without using the words "open borders" or "immigration." He also took hypocritical cheap shots at other candidates -- like suggesting that Perry’s claim that you can’t really secure the border with a fence (a valid point) was “treasonous” ... even though Huntsman himself is for open borders.

The Wolfman: Wolf Blitzer of CNN did a surprisingly good job moderating the debate. He kept things moving along nicely, got everyone involved, and was amazingly fair -- very few “gotcha” questions. (FYI, the left is attacking CNN for working with the Tea Party... "unethical".)

Candidate For Sale: Perry took a pounding. He generally held up well, but not always. Paul blasted him for the growth of government and taxation in Texas and Perry had no real response. Perry also started well on the Gardasil vaccine issue, but withered under the constant (unfair) attacks. Perry also continues to give unsatisfactory evasions to the crony capitalism issue. For example, his best response to the issue was: “I raised $30 million. If you think I can be bought for $5,000, then I’m insulted.” Ok, what is your price, sir?

Blah Blah Blah: Romney is getting better at answering the RomneyCare issue by listing significant ways it varies from ObamaCare. He’s also starting to take the gloves off, though he still seems like the most tentative guy on stage and he comes across as snide when he attacks. The main problem for Romney continues to be that he’s a technocrat and while his lips move a lot, you can’t remember anything he says.

Illegals: Perry defended granting instate tuition to illegals (good economics, fairness, blah blah) and Huntsman explained granting drivers licenses to illegals (they were special licenses that identified these people as illegals).

On these issues, let me say that I actually think giving drivers licenses makes sense. Why? To protect people. These illegals will be driving whether we like it or not, and it just makes a lot of sense to have them in the system where they can be monitored, tested, taxed and forced to buy insurance. This makes it easier for law enforcement to do its job, and will protect other drivers / pedestrians -- right now, illegals run when they have an accident and that creates real problems for the people they hit.

Granting instate tuition, on the other hand, ticks me off. If you come from another state or legally come from another country, you need to pay out-of-state rates. So why should someone who is here illegally have MORE rights than someone who is here legally?

Got Gas: Bachmann made a point in the first debate about bringing the cost of gas down to $2 per gallon. The MSM scoffed at her claim -- even though the economics is actually on her side. Regardless, there is an ingenious aspect to her point, which is worth noting. People understand the benefits of energy independence in an abstract way, but they can’t personalize it. But everyone understands $2 a gallon gas.

Vaccinating Stupidity: There are valid reasons to criticize Perry for the vaccine issue. Specifically, his conduct raises questions of cronyism and his willingness to overstep his authority. BUT... to turn this into an broader anti-vaccine tirade as Santorum and Bachmann are doing is lunacy. To pretend that it violates people’s rights to force them to be inoculated against communicable diseases like small pox or to inoculate their children against easily-prevented debilitating diseases like polio is unconscionable idiocy.

Vox Tea Populi: For once, the questions from the audience were really good. I guess that’s due to this being a Tea Party crowd and not a bunch of MSM-picked whiny, mindless liberals.

Finally, thanks to everyone who participated in last night's debate play by play and the “yo’ momma so liberal” contest that broke out.

Oh, one more thing. In the name of equal time, we've agreed to let HypnoBama have a few words with you:

Vote for me puny humans!


AndrewPrice said...

P.S. Don't forget there are elections tonight in New York and Nevada, both of which might embarrass Obama!

TJ said...

I didn't even know there was a debate last night until I turned on Fox News this morning. That is really strange scheduling it the same night as Monday Night Football. Thanks for the recap Andrew!

AndrewPrice said...

You're welcome TJ. I didn't know about it either until about an hour before it happened.

It really was strange scheduling. Not only did they just have one, but to put this on opposite Monday Night Football... the opening game. It just amazes me that they didn't think about this. There is no reason they couldn't have done it tonight instead.

T-Rav said...

Andrew, see the hilarity that follows when one forgets to sockpuppet? :-)

I'll have more to say later, but in general I agree with your points; this was a better debate than even Fox could give us, with lots of genuine Tea Partiers. I liked just about everything...until Gardasil came up. I have a feeling by the time this issue burns out, I'm going to need shots, I'll have such a headache.

StanH said...

I think it was a strong showing by all, with the exception of Ron Paul, and Huntsman, he needs to go back to work for his Barry. CNN did a good job as well, amazing.

LawHawkRFD said...

Andrew: Perry's response to Bachmann's comment reminds me of a very old joke. Man walks up to a woman who is a total stranger. He says "would you sleep with me for a million dollars?" She replies "yes." The man hands her five dollars. Indignant, she says "what do you think I am?" He responds, "we've already determined what you are, we're just haggling over the price."

I agree on all your points, particularly about Huntsman. And I've been looking for a long time for one of the candidates to pronounce a reasonable replacement for our current tax code. Cain has gotten as close as anyone I've heard from. He also did a good job on Social Security reform, citing Chile as an example.

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, The sockpuppet thing was pretty funny. :-)

I'm glad you saw it similarly. Feel free to add anything that comes to mind later. And thanks for doing the play by play -- it was fun.

On the vaccine, this strikes me as a real blind alley, the kind that the candidates should not be spending time on. Going down this path is playing to a very small fringe and will have the rest of the public scratching their heads thinking "why are the Republicans so obsessed with that issue? Shouldn't they be talking about the economy?"

AndrewPrice said...

Stan, I was stunned how well CNN did. I can't stress that enough that they were fair, but also didn't end up just pitching softballs. Wolf really did a great job.

Yeah, Huntsman needs to go.

Paul's not really in this to win it, so I doubt this will force him out. but he certainly lost a lot of people last night.

AndrewPrice said...

Lawhawk, I'm really impressed with Cain's answers. He's got some solid plans that would obviously work in the real world.

I thought Perry's answer was horrible. For one thing, "I'm insulted" is not a denial. Secondly, he was so hesitant in how he said it that it sounded like something he was trying to formulate very carefully. Third, as you and I both note, he's just haggling over price. There was no sense that he got this was wrong IN PRINCIPLE.

Huntsman bugs me because I get the sense he's lying whenever he speaks. He says some good things, but they always seem shady to me.

JG said...

Just a couple of thoughts:

Now that we live in a border town (in Texas, next to the most dangerous city in the world), I've seen a lot more of these issues first-hand. The principle of giving a driver's license - official valid government documentation - to someone here illegally grates me, but I can see the logic behind it. Here, half the cars you see carry Mexican license plates. As such, they are not legally required to carry insurance. So, if you are in an accident, there's no coverage on the other side. Allowing/requiring them to have a US driver's license might help with that somehow. I don't know. But I agree, that's about protecting citizens, not extending citizen rights to non-citizens.

And, ugh, the vaccine thing. I passionately, vehemently hate Gardisil. And I don't like the way mandated vaccines have exploded the last 20 years. But - big but - again, there's a place for them. The Perry?Gardisil thing, I believe, is overblown. I did read in an interview with him a few weeks ago (can't remember where) that it was an emotional decision made after one of his parents was diagnosed with cancer, and he would take it back, because the vaccine wasn't proven, too many dangerous side-effects, not a good enough opt-out, etc. So, I dislike his decision, but it doesn't turn me off to him because A) he appears to see why it was a mistake and B) because of the specific vaccine in question. That didn't come through last night and (if I had to guess) he got distracted by the $5000 issue and got put into a tailspin. Which is not presidential. Unfortunately, it's now turned into some pro-vaccine/anti-vaccine thing, as though those are well-defined lines. That part I don't like. Makes candidates look more extreme than they are.

BevfromNYC said...

Once again I missed the fun. I can attest to the fact that the liberal blogs are buzzing at how unfair CNN was to stage this with those blasted Tea Party groups! How dare they ask fair and balanced questions! How did they possibly ask intelligent questions since all of them are so stupid! The least the TP'ers could have done was go to Faux News. Shame on CNN, shame on Wolf Blitzer!

[That hurt my head...]

rlaWTX said...

I only watched in spurts - real TV was on another channel.
[1] y'all's color commentary was the best part of the whole debate.
[2] nearly every time I switched over to CNN, Huntsman was being smarmy. I really don't like him. And Romney kinda reminds me of him... too bad for Romney.
[3] I missed the good Cain parts - bummer!
[4] I caught a piece of the vaccine thing and changed back to a commercial because Bachmann and whatshisname were annoying.
Is that tall thin guy Santorum? I hadn't seen a pic I guess & I pictured someone else... (and when he was on the screen, his name wasn't at the bottom).

I'm hoping that by the primaries things will settle out, because I am afraid that Perry's "popularity" in TX might have been a "he's better than fill-in-the-blank" and losing the TX primary and willing the nomination would be bad. I'm not sure if I hope his TX numbers (anecdotally low) go up, or his national polling # goes down.

AndrewPrice said...

JG, In truth, it grates me too because they shouldn't be here. But unless we plan to deport them, which I think won't happen, then we are creating a real problem for innocent people by keeping them off the books.

When I was in DC, it happened all the time that someone would get into a car accident or (even worse) a pedestrian would get run over by someone without a license and no insurance. Most uninsured motorist coverage is really minimal and if you're a pedestrian, then it probably doesn't even kick in. So many of these people ended up stuck with huge bills and nowhere to turn.

I think giving some sort of drivers license and requiring these illegals to get insurance to obtain the licenses would help to reduce the risk that innocent people get wiped out in these kinds of accidents -- while not actually giving them any official standing in the US.

In other words, to me, it's more important to protect innocent people than whatever anger it may generate to officially acknowledge that these people are here -- though it should also be clear that this does not give them any right to be here, it's just an administrative convenience.

On the vaccine, I don't have any thoughts about Gardisil itself. What bothers me is the next step in the argument that so many people are suddenly taking -- the idea that there should be an opt-out or opt-in for ALL vaccines. That is what bothers me and it drives me crazy that people running for the Presidency would flirt with that.

I have a solid civil libertarian streak, but sometimes your own rights give way to "the good of society." And vaccines to stop killer diseases is probably the most classic instance of that trade off.

AndrewPrice said...

Bev, I've seen some interesting articles just positively screaming about how "unethical" and wrong it was for CNN to partner with the Tea Party. And the fact they tried to be fair just makes it all the worse.

The left has really lost their minds.

AndrewPrice said...

rlaWTX, Thanks! I agree about the other channels. LOL!

Yeah, that was Santorum. I have little good to say about Santorum. He's spitting out slogans rather than ideas, he's playing to fringe issues, and I've liked little that he's said.

Bachmann really went on the attack about the vaccine because I think she believes this is an issue that will set her apart with religious conservatives and she and Perry are fighting for their support.

Huntsman = smarmy. Yep. I concur. Romney too. Honestly, I wouldn't buy a car from either.

Perry is an interesting question. Is he really a great governor? Or was Romney right by saying he's just the governor of a good place? I honestly don't know. My biggest concern with him remains the idea that he's more than willing to sell his soul to his donors. If that's true, then we can't trust him to be conservative. I just can't tell you if it's true because no one is really making him explain it. Last night was the first time he was called on it and he gave the $5k answer, which was not a good answer.

I will say this though, he has impressed me in the debates. He's been more knowledgeable, and more willing to admit mistakes than I expected.

And let me stress, I would take anyone on the stage (even Wolf Blitzer) over Obama.

AndrewPrice said...

P.S. JG, I agree too that there are too many vaccines now and that's done for profit rather than health concerns. But the real issue there is to determine which ones should be mandated and which ones are there for political or monetary reasons.

Unfortunately, there are too many people pushing the idea that all vaccines should be a matter of choice and they are using junk science to prop up their claims.

T-Rav said...

Cain's tax idea is interesting, though to be honest I can't hear it without thinking of a limited discount deal on pizzas. ;-)

As outrageous as I found Paul's foreign policy comments, I'm glad he said them, because I want this last quixotic bid of his nipped in the bud. Can you imagine if all the other contenders were to cancel each other out and he were to somehow squeak through? Ugh.

Huntsman is just a piece of crap, through and through. I still want to know who out there is actively supporting him--oh wait, I already know. They're called liberals (and/or saboteurs).

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, That thought has passed my mind too, about the $9.99 plan! But you know, it's easy to remember!

Yeah, Huntsman is troubling. Although he sounds conservative during the debates, I just can't forget his record and it seems obvious to me that he's lying because of these sneaky coded moments.

I'm of two minds on Paul. On the one hand, I agree with what you've said. This is the kind of moment that wipes out any genuine chance the candidate has. That's good in this case because while I like a lot of what Paul says, the rest of what he says is insane. It's not just that I disagree with it, but I think it would destroy this country.

On the other hand, wrapped in Paul's insanity are some things that we honestly should be asking, and I'm afraid that will get lost because of the messenger. The danger is that we end up continuing bad (foreign and domestic) policies simply because everyone is too afraid to suggest that we change.

rlaWTX said...

Oh - and I caught a couple of Newt's responses to Huntsman's smarminess! Now I know why he's around! ;)

AndrewPrice said...

rlaWTX, Newt did a great job last night of exposing hidden liberalism in the answers and Huntsman had a lot of that which needed to be exposed.

I thought Newt's GE answer was great and how he pinned that on Obama.

He was definitely a valuable addition to the debate.

T-Rav said...

Andrew, I agree that there are some questions wrapped up in Paul's head we should be discussing. But it needs to be coming from someone other than him. It's not that I don't like him--okay, part of it's that I don't like him, but more importantly, as long as he is the chief spokesman, mixing these points with rants about the gold standard, neocons, and the Federal Reserve, we'll never get anywhere.

T-Rav said...

Incidentally, Bachmann may have really gotten herself into trouble after the debate. While being interviewed, she repeated this claim by a woman she'd talked to her that this woman's kid had become mentally retarded as a result of vaccination, which is almost certainly untrue. If I had to guess, she was probably trying to take another swipe at Perry, and not making an anti-vaccination stance, but that's how it came across to a lot of people. There's been considerable pushback against her today, on talk radio and the blogosphere, up to and including Rush Limbaugh. If this gets traction, she may have wiped out any gains from last night's debate. Not a happy day in T-Rav Land.

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, I agree. My concerns are (1) that Paul will drag down the good with the bad. I would like to see someone else take up the mantle for the good part of Paul without the bad parts. I just don't know who that would be?


(2) That we allow a mob mentality to form which makes it impossible for more reasonable people to discuss things we may not want to hear. One of the easiest ways to form a mob is to pander to it, and I thought several of the candidates were doing that.

CrisD said...

I have something to say about the vaccine tempest. I worked as the school nurse in Denver area over ten years ago. They were telling people to get the gardasil for their girls but you could opt out (which I did). But as nurse collecting and collating records I can tell you that you can opt out of ALL vaccines by saying you have a religious/health objection. It is very easy and nobody needs a letter from your church or anything-you just check a box. I discussed it with my nurse supervisor who told me that there was an increase of chicken pox and measles b/c of people who did not get them. The only one you had to get is TB--I think that was different.
I agree Bachmann is trying to create a wedge to to Perry's stubborn lead!
I will also go out on a limb here and say that Romney is looking good for Pres. (Not because Romney is presenting any great details of a plan but b/c he is looking professional). Perry touches all the hot points and says the "right things" (except that he needs more than 5k to be paid off)but he has to prove more finesse in the debating arena.
Ron Paul stole the show--and not in a good way!!!!!!!

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, I actually know a little something about vaccines because vaccine cases get handled by the Court of Federal Claims (or whatever they call themselves these days) and I knew people who handled those cases.

The truth is that some minute percentage of the population will have an allergic reaction to vaccinations -- even the safest ones. That can lead to retardation, paralysis or even death. This is a known risk. But the numbers are incredibly small and need to be weighed against the harm the vaccines are designed to stop. Do you stop a vaccine because a couple hundred kids out of millions might get injured or do you let a disease run wild which will kill millions? That’s the question.

So Bachmann may in fact be telling the truth that this kid was hurt by a vaccine, but what she is suggesting is a horrid idea. She is suggesting that to stop these few injuries, we should let preventable diseases kill and main millions. And she’s using after the fact reasoning to create an emotional appeal. That’s the same one-sided logic nanny-state advocates use everywhere.... “look at this kid who got hurt, we need to do something.”

I’m not saying it’s not a tragedy for the kids who get hurt, but the real tragedy would be what would happen to our country if we let people make their kids into potential plague carriers.

AndrewPrice said...

CrisD, I knew there was a religious exemption, I didn't know it was that easy though. Interesting. I know that a lot of colleges also require proof of Hep vaccination and a few others. And if you go overseas, you apparently get a whole battery of things -- yellow fever, dengue, etc.

I saw a story in Maryland a couple months back where they required people to get their kids vaccinated and it turned out that up to 60% of black kids in Baltimore weren't vaccinated because people have been pushing the idea in the black community that vaccines are intended to make black sterile. And then they wonder why so many diseases are making a comeback in the inner cities. Ug.

On Romney, I saw today that he does better than Perry in head to head polls against Obama. That's interesting. I definitely think the race is between Perry and Romney at the moment.

Yeah, Paul tends to steal the show wherever he goes and it's not usually in a good way. Sometimes it is, but more often than not, it's usually some bad moment. Like I said, I think that's too bad because he has some great points.... they're just lost among the crazy.

Ed said...

Andrew, Nice wrap up! On behalf of my sockpuppet, you're welcome.

Creepy photo of Obama too! LOL!

AndrewPrice said...

Thanks for participating!

Yeah, that's kind of a creepy photo, isn't it? It actually turned out a bit hypnotic. Stare it and it seems to follow you a bit if you move your head.

T-Rav said...

Andrew, I think the anti-vaccination crowd is fairly unhinged. In all honesty, I'm a little leery of getting so many injections myself, but push comes to shove, if or when I have kids, they're getting the shots.

In the case of HPV, my only issue is that there doesn't seem to be as big a need for it as with measles or mumps. That is, it's not as naturally contagious; if I understand the nature of the virus right, you have to do "something" to contract it. So I don't know that it's as vital a health issue as these other things we get vaccinated for. But I'm not an expert.

In any case, I thought both Bachmann's and Santorum's rhetoric in response to Perry was over the top. He admitted that he probably shouldn't have gone about it the way he did, via executive order; to go further with the attacks would be to suggest that he cares more about crony capitalism and campaign contributions than he does about the health of young women. And I'm not prepared to go down that road.

T-Rav said...

Oh jeez, the eyes do move with you a little, don't they? Gah!

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, It's really a strange image -- much stranger than I expected. It almost has a 3-D quality to it... though it's entirely accidental.

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, That's my thinking exactly.

1. I don't know if this particular vaccine is the kind of thing that should be required or not as I haven't studied the vaccine itself. BUT it doesn't sound like it should be. AND it sounds like Perry did it for the wrong reasons and abused his authority in doing it.

2. But Perry seems to admit that was a mistake. Pounding away at this point doesn't make a lot of sense to me since he's not claiming he was right all along.

3. My bigger concern is the rhetoric that has been used is clearly flirting with the anti-vaccine crowd, who have tried for year to claim that vaccines cause everything from the spike in autism to obesity to a million other things and who are trying to overturn the entire vaccination scheme.

I think flirting with those people is like flirting with the truthers and is very bad for conservatism if we become associated with that.

Tam said...

I've worked in schools, my kid is in public school, my mieces and nephews are in public schools, and it IS easy to get an exemption from vaccines...no forms, no letters, just a check in a box. And, there have been (rare) cases of those awful plagues popping up again. Things like scarlet fever and polio that were virtually eradicated because of vaccines can be reintroduced because of the one in a million (or more) chance that a kid will get brain damage. Yes, it is horrifically sad for the individual and family faced with that. A family friend had twins my age, one of whom reacted badly to an infant shot and was mentally retarded. Sad, for sure. My dad had polio as a kid. Also horrific and sad. I vaccinated my kid without reservations because the benefits far outweigh the risks.

Also, it's about the economy, stupid(s). When the candidates stick to things that matter to the population as a whole and not a small element, they sound conservative and logical and principled and sane. I'd be happier with anyone on that stage than Dear Leader. Heck, I'd be happier with T-Rav's sock puppet than Dear Leader.

Writer X said...

Great recap. Bachman annoyed me. Cain impressed me. Perry looked a little tired. Romney isn't getting real about RomneyCare yet, which I find annoying, Ron Paul looks like he's forgotten to remove the hangar from his shirt, and who are the other guys? That said, I'd rather have ANYONE up on that stage than the idiot we have in the White House today.

I thought Wolf did a good job and I liked the debate format. Looking forward to the next debate.

CrisD said...

Tam and Andrew-
I always thought about vaccinations b/c my baby brother went into a coma for 2 days with mumps incephalitis after his mumps vaccination. (He's fine and a lawyer like his dad and granddad!)
But it made me nervous when it came to my kids! I got them the shots b/c I realized it was really rare to have a reaction.
I opted out of the gardasil with my daughter when she was in sixth grade. When she went to college, she got it and the Hep, it was her informed decision to do so.
I think a lot of the "requiring" and "opting out" may be confusing to parents who do not look into it carefully.
It is one of those things that just muddies up the waters when we really need to address budget, obamacare costs, stimulus 2, unemplyment and our cruddy economy and foreclosures.

AndrewPrice said...

Tam, I don't know about T-Rav's sockpuppet... word on the street is his mother is a liberal! LOL!

Seriously though, I never thought we would have a President so incompetent that literally anyone plucked off the street would be a better President, but that's what we have right now. I feel like there are 310 million better choices in this country.

On the vaccines, I agree completely. It is a tragedy when someone is hurt by a vaccine, but we just can't let these diseases make a comeback. And unfortunately, that's what happens when people aren't vaccinated. It doesn't take much to bring these things back... as we're seeing in the bigger cities.

Great point on the economy! I was literally just thinking the same thing as I was checking out the articles at a couple other sites. The MSM really wants this whole debate to come down to the vaccine issue because that's not what's on the public's mind. In fact, I'm seeing dozens of articles talking about the vaccine being "a winning issue" and encouraging the Republicans to fight over it.

And I think the reason for that is exactly what you say: when the candidates stick to the economy, they look good and Obama looks bad. When they get off on these tangents, they look bad and Obama gets a pass.

AndrewPrice said...

Writer X, Thanks! I agree, this was a very lively debate. It was fun to watch, but also very substantive. I have to commend Wolf for good questions and doing a good job of keeping people moving -- and doing so without constantly trying to interrupt them.

I think you sum up the candidates well. And yeah, Paul's suit really doesn't fit. He should see a tailor or something.... although the "absent-minded professor" fits his image.

And let me second the idea that anyone would be better than Obama. Wow has he turned out to be just awful as a President. This better be the last time American buys a President from the discount bin!

T-Rav said...

Tam, that can be arranged! :-)

More seriously, and not to inflate Andrew's or LawHawk's egos, but I'm glad this vaccine issue and everything else can be thrashed out without getting nasty. I visited some of the other blogs today, and it was just disgusting the way they were going to war with each other, depending on whether they were pulling for Perry or Palin/Bachmann. Thankfully, at least some of us can still be civil.

AndrewPrice said...

CrisD, I agree entirely. This is an interesting issue to discuss and I think we should probably examine our policies again to make sure that these decisions are based on science/medicine rather than politics/money.

BUT... the real issue right now is the economy. Obama has damaged our economy. He has destroyed jobs and hurt people. The Republicans need to "focus like a laserbeam" on the economy. That's what the public wants to hear from these people right now.

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, Ego? Moi? ;-)

I agree. I'm very happy that everyone here is smart, respectful and reasonable. There are very few purely black and white issues, and people should be free to discuss their views without fear that other people are going to be jerks about it.

Ed said...

Here's something interesting. Palin is attacking Perry for the Gardasil vaccine issue, but she took federal funds to make it available to girls "ages 9 through 18" in 2007.

Palin and Gardasil

T-Rav said...

So, enough of vaccine crap. In terms of top-tier people, who "won," Romney or Perry? I think it was a draw; both took some hits, Perry maybe a bit more. But I'm sure it'll change with each new debate.

Meanwhile, polls have just closed in NY-9, so now there's that to keep up on.

AndrewPrice said...

Ed, There is a lot of hypocrisy in politics.

I honestly don't think this issue has any legs regarding these candidates and this primary.

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, That's a good question. On the one hand, I don't think either Perry or Romney walked away a clear winner last night.

Perry took a lot of hits and that makes him seem like the loser at first glance, but you have to judge the quality of those hits. I don't think he took any serious hits that will turn people off him. In other words, I doubt any of the hits he took last night will be remembered next week.

I don't think Romney changed any minds (pro or con) last night either.

Some of the others looked good last night, but not enough to elevate themselves into serious contention.

So I would personally say the whole thing was one big draw and nothing changed.

T-Rav said...

Grrr...so 45 minutes after the polls closed, this race in NY is still showing no results yet on the official AP page. Rumor has it Turner (the Republican) moved to impound ballot boxes after allegations of voter fraud, so this could take a while to sort out. I also read that in some Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Weprin (the Democrat) was getting outvoted 6-1.

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, I read that the Democrats actually think they won because of their get out the vote machine. So we'll see. Either way though, this is a huge black for Obama and their party.

T-Rav said...

Oh, now it's coming in: so far, Turner is winning one precinct. Out of 512. 48 votes to 34 for Weprin. Based on this, I can predict a Republican victory with one hundred percent confidence.

Liberals said...

"a huge black for Obama and their party"?

Andrew Price is a RAACCCISSSTTTT!!!!!!

AndrewPrice said...

Whoops, typo: "black eye."

If I was racist, I would have said [CENSORED by Department of Homeland Security] and your little Biden too!

T-Rav said...

Better be careful Andrew! They'll get you!

Finally, numbers rolling in from New York: with about 8% of votes in, Turner is leading 51-49. It's neck-and-neck in the Queens part, but in Brooklyn, he's beating the Dem by a two-to-one margin.

Nothing yet from Nevada.

AndrewPrice said...

They'll never take me alive, T-Rav!!

T-Rav said...


Rep Mark Amodei up 61-34 over Dem Kate Marshall (I think the first names are correct, if they aren't, sue me), with less than 1% of the vote in.

New York:

It's been back and forth, but with 26% in, Turner is leading 51-49. But those numbers are deceptive: More conservative Brooklyn has barely reported at all yet. In Queens, the more liberal of the two, Weprin is getting clobbered, relative to expectations.

Department of Homeland Security said...

He suspects nothing. Prepare a boarding party, and set your weapons for stun.

AndrewPrice said...

A boarding party? You think I'm on a ship.... ah yes, of course I'm on a ship. Ahoy! And come and get me DHS! I'm ripping up a picture of Janet Napolitano right now!

AndrewPrice said...

Woo hooo! The AP is reporting that Turner won!

And this was a 3-1 Democratic district!

T-Rav said...

Aaanndd...boom go the voters. Turner wins.

No official declaration from Nevada yet, but the count is approaching 50%, and Amodei still has a 20-point lead. We cleaned up tonight. Go ahead and cry, liberals...your tears nourish me :-)

Liberals said...

This only means Obama hasn't moved far enough left yet!!!! Single payer.... single payer..... single voter.

T-Rav said...

Bwahaa--headline on Drudge right now on Turner's victory: "Revenge of the Jews."

Ponderosa said...

Glad that Turner won. But I'm also depressed.
This will be a wake-up call for the demmys.

Just like the Scott Brown victory woke...oh wait never mind.

TJ said...

"The left has really lost their minds." What minds? I know rhetorical question.

With regard to vaccines - my kids got all of theirs, except for the chicken pox. Their doctor advised that it hadn't been around long enough (this was about 10 years ago) to prove whether or not it would provide protection well into adulthood and getting chicken pox as an adult is pretty bad. He felt it would be better to let them get the chicken pox and that would be better protection.

I agree that the candidates should stay away from this issue and concentrate more on the economy. Andrew you summed it up best: "when the candidates stick to the economy, they look good and Obama looks bad. When they get off on these tangents, they look bad and Obama gets a pass."

AndrewPrice said...

Ponderosa, It will be interesting to see the reaction. I think this will send them into a panic because if it can happen in a 3-1 D to R district, then it can easily happen in tight Senate races.

AndrewPrice said...

Thanks TJ, I think that's right. As Clinton correctly said, "it's the economy stupid!" And that's never been more true than now, as we're struggling with the Obama Depression. When 20 million people are unemployed and 60 million are under-employed, people want to hear how you plan to fix that and that's about all they want to hear.

I didn't even know there was a chicken pox vaccine! Wow. Science marches on!

Patti said...

it's not often i get a chance to listen to rush, but today i caught a 15 minute piece where he ranted about the right going balls-to-the-wall against ALL barry policies. hit 'em hard, be confidently vocal, and hit 'em often.

couldn't agree more. this republican group needs to heed that advice. americans are tired of a small idiotic group of liberals shaping policy.

AndrewPrice said...

Patti, Very true. We need our candidates to stand up for us and not to let up. Obama is trying to change America for the worse. They need to call him on that and not worry about whose feelings get hurt. Obama is the target, not each other.

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