Welcome to tonight's debate thread. . .
For those who haven't heard. Thaddeus McCotter has dropped out and is endorsing Mitt Romney. Darrell Issa is also endorsing Mitt Romney. Commentarama is considering endorsing Barry Goldwater.
Please feel free to join along! :)
Thursday, September 22, 2011
T-Rav's Sockpuppet Theater Presents: The Debate
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280 comments:
1 – 200 of 280 Newer› Newest»To be perfectly honest, endorsing Barry Goldwater might do as much good for conservatism as endorsing any of these folks would. Yes, yes--I'm being too sour, but still...
Cheer up T-Rav! The end of the Obama Error is nigh...
BTW, here's an interesting article about a poll taken by Democrats in 60 battleground districts. The Dems are doing worse than they did in 2010 and they are being weighed down by Obama -- who apparently would lose to both Perry or Romney....
...or a surgical conglomeration of the two: Promney.
By the way, speaking of endorsements, here's part of Issa's statement today on his Romney pick, via Politico:
“The country would be well served to have someone who knows how the economy works and has worked in the private sector. President Obama never worked in the real economy – we can’t afford to have another president who has spent his career outside the real economy.”
So the reasoning, I take it, is that Romney has the most experience with business and is therefore the best at energizing it. I don't know what McCotter's rationale was, but back in June he referred to Romney as an ideal running mate for Obama, so keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that, for whatever it's worth, Issa endorsed McCain back in '08.
T-Rav, A lot of people endorsed McCain... much to my chagrin.
I wouldn't want to repeat what happened with Goldwater, who did the Republican Party and the conservative cause a great service but suffered a horrendous defeat. There's something to be said for the right man at the right time. Goldwater was the right man at the wrong time, and we ended up with Lyndon Johnson, the Vietnam War and the War on Poverty.
If we nominate someone who is too far ahead of the curve, or too regional, or too divisive, it won't matter how good his or her philosophy is. We'll lose the general election, and "being right" won't be much comfort.
We can't afford to wait for another Reagan to arrive in sixteen years after a loss to the Democrats "on principle." America might not survive another four years of Lyndon Johnson in the form of Barack Obama. We need to nominate a conservative who also understands that if elected, he or she will be serving the entire American people and will have to work with Democrats, no matter how loathsome the prospect.
It is also likely that conservative Republicans will gain strength in the House, and the Senate will likely go R as well. That means a moderate/conservative Republican candidate could feel more comfortable after the election tacking right than he or she might feel without those majorities. I don't want any RINOs, I don't want any weak-spined pseudo-conservatives, and I don't want the Old Guard re-establishing itself. But I also don't want a candidate who thinks (like Obama) that he or she can govern by fiat using his or her own political ideals which may or may not yet be American mainstream. That's a recipe for re-electing the devil we know rather than the devil the American people don't know.
To clarify, while endorsing or voting for Romney sounds to me about as pleasant as inserting a claw hammer through my left ear and then yanking it out, I don't begrudge people who do so. People like Issa and McCotter no doubt feel he is the candidate with the best chance of defeating Obama by drawing both moderates and conservatives. I don't agree with that conclusion, but I respect it. (And I am tired of hearing other conservatives denounce them and others as RINOs, which is just idiotic. We're going to tear them to pieces for this one thing, after all their good work? Really?)
You dirty RINO!
Just kidding. I agree. It's getting ridiculous how many people are attacking solid conservatives as RINOs just because they disagree with some decision... any decision, that person makes.
Just because you disagree on an issue doesn't even make them a moderate, much less a RINO. RINOs have earned that title, both by consistently voting against conservative ideas, AND by being disloyal to the Republican Party.
I'm going to miss the debate because I have to take the kid to swim, so have fun, all!
Is it just my wishful thinking, or does it seem like Dear Leader is going full board with his hard core leftist agenda (he's not pretending to hide it like he was before) and the hard core leftists are getting excited about that, but everyone else is onto him and angry with him? If that really is the case, then I can't see a scenario where he wins, (besides MASSIVE fraud) no matter who we nominate. I'm still only cautiously optimistic, but getting closer and closer to dropping the caution.
only 411 more days...
Tam, I also think he's gone completely left lately. I think he's trying to sure up his base before the general election when he plans to talk to the center again. Unfortunately for him, I don't think that will be work because neither the left or the center trust him.
Tam, I agree with Andrew. He's got no choice except to double down. Like you, I'm still at the cautiously optimistic stage, but if Obama finally and permanently loses the moderate/independent crowd, no amount of election fraud will save him. If the Dems couldn't pull it off in close Senate races like PA last year, they won't manage it next year.
Things should be starting soon.
In the meantime, I'm looking at that snazy image at the top of this thread and wondering put that together?!
// pats self on back
As an aside, I just got my millionth phone call supposedly from my credit card company to call about getting a lower rate. But get this... the caller ID said "phone scam." Interesting.
Okay, time to get cracking.
Poll of the night:
Which of these candidates will do the best job as President compared to Obama?
A. Romney
B. Perry
C. Bachmann
D. Paul
E. Anyone else
F. Megatron, my imaginary three-legged pet gerbil
Ooh, that applause for Huntsman was weak. (heh heh heh)
T-Rav, That's a trick question. ANYONE could do better than Obama.
I am ruling this debate tonight.
Let me uh answer this question... uh, you gotta tax the rich to create jobs.
Bad Acoustic, I agree. Plus, Perry sounds drugged.
Bret Baier's question, in summary: Your jobs plan sucks. Why?
Good answer by Romney... I want everyone to be rich.
He didn't have his question answered because CNN asked Huntsman.
It sounds like they're running the sound through a gymnasium or a huge public bathroom.
I like the idea of 0% taxes, but that's not really a realistic answer.
Romney is giving smart answers, neither dodging the question nor getting trapped into trying to give a lengthy answer that can't be squeezed into the short time allotted.
You know why those states are deep red? Because they're OF THE DEVIL, THAT'S WHY!!!!!
The federal right to work question is a very good one. Let's see if someone can answer it without stumbling.
This is not a good format for a debate. I hate to credit CNN, but they ran a much better debate all around
- sound
- questions to all the candidates
- pacing
Hawk, I agree. I would like to see the question thrown out to everyone to hear the answers.
Not paying people something for doing nothing? Ding!
Promoting initiative at the state rather than federal level? Ding!
Oh Newt, why must you be Newt Gingrich?
Hey, Newt: Not everyone who is unemployed needs training. Many are multi-talented and multi-experienced, and need a job, not job training. You've made the wrong basic assumption about who is unemployed.
Let me quote from the hippest pop groups today, to show I'm cool and relatable.
Go Herm!!!
He is really dynamic and is showing a great set of ideas. I don't see Congress going for it, but I love it!
It makes me laugh that Herman Cain's caption is "Former CEO of Godfather's Pizza." It's funny AND true!
I want to be clear, because my jobs plan sure wasn't.
I love Americans! 10th Amendment baby! Woo hoo!
Cain is sticking to his 9-9-9 plan. I don't have the numbers (and I'm not sure if he does), but the concept is right. Most importantly, he includes tossing out the entire current tax code.
And that was the great Ron Paul! :-)
Oh my Lord. Did they deliberately select a Paulbot question for Paul? Not that I have an issue with that, but he should get a challenging question to prove his worth. Asking him that is like asking, "Will you promise to maintain regular elections?"
When Paul gets it right, he nails it. 10th Amendment automatic veto. God love him.
Re-election isn't an office, is it?
Ok, I like this guy.
Dear Fox News,
Use the commercial to fix your sound and pick a new format!
Please take part in this debate with us, everyone! Pay no attention to these plans for world domination...
Don't get me started on Google and its evil empire... grrrr.
Wow, that was a retarded commercial. So now we're attacking legal immigrants as well? You know they're only taking the jobs our welfare recipients are too lazy or self-centered to take, right?
So what's the point to the Audi commercial? Our owners are idiots? or Our owners have so much money they don't care about anything. Hmm. Neither is really a great message.
Let me ask a question. What, um, would you emphasize in your budget, out of these, uh, many essential programs? High-speed rail, another stimulus bill, or shovel-ready jobs? Because, let me be clear, those are important.
The new kid in town is turning out to be a sensible libertarian who knows that no political philosophy is holy writ. Maybe he's the guy who understands that politics is more than advancing your own agenda.
Best answer: "Man was I stupid in saying that... forget I said."
Ow. I wonder if he plays tennis with that backhand.
Dammit, Romney is impressing me tonight.
Perry is now stumbling over the explanation of how fifty separate states can have their own Social Security Plan. He offered an alternate version of his plan, but still didn't answer the basic question. He only addressed public employees and public employee retirement funds. Different world, Governor.
Shut up! The dog bell thingy went off!
Romney just answered the question for him. Perry is coming back with Obamneycare. Fair, but not responsive.
Somebody did a lot of research for that one.
Allahpundit on Twitter: SOMEONE THROW A CHAIR
Grrr. Romney got the better end of that by far.
Wooo Newt!!!! Plus +100!
Romney is showing his experience in debating on his feet. Perry is showing his inexperience. (Just an observation, not an endorsement or criticism)
Megyn, I will not answer your question while pretending to answer it.
I hate to say it, but Romney is on fire tonight... and a good way, not literally.
Lawhawk, I agree. Romney is showing a lot of debating skill and Perry isn't.
When is there EVER a good time to raise taxes Jon?
Is there a good time to be raising taxes? And if so, when?
We can wait to raise taxes for my second term.
Only one?
That's not where Arlington is. It's by Washington, not Richmond. I've been there.
Well, Huntsman isn't all bad. LOL
Mr. Cain, I'm on board with you, but that's not a Department. Cut Education. Or HUD.
Perry does not answer the questions.
Why is this man not our president?
CAIN CAIN CAIN ! He hates the EPA almost as much as those of us living in the California Central Valley dust bowl next to the Delta smelt fish bowl.
I'm liking Newt a lot too.
Hey! We invented philosophy and comedy and everything else! We're smart, and we want respect!
Cain/Gingrich 2012!!!
Here comes the "all candidates" question about education.
I love these questions from the public. :)
OHHHHHHH. I don't like Johnson, but he totally went there.
I agree with Newt on this. Privatize K-12.
Okay, I'll give Ron Paul points for hitting No Child Left Behind.
Perry is making a mistake with his strategy, it comes across as pissy.
Ziiiing by Romney.
Grrr. Romney continues to impress me.
I don't think Perry came off well right there. The other candidates were presenting actual ideas, he gave a generic answer and then attacked Romney, and Romney just slapped him down. Not good.
Cain... cut all the strings.
I'll say it again, why isn't this man president?
Prediction: Bachmann will probably completely fade out after this debate.
Huntsman's plan is to SPEND MORE MONEY.
No! No one likes that @#$%ing bell!!
T-Rav, Here are my current predictions:
Bachmann fades away.
Perry collapses after tonight.
Johnson goes back to zero -- I like what he says, but he doesn't come across well.
More people jump on Romney's bandwagon tomorrow.
... and Godzilla attacks Tokyo tomorrow.
Hey, that sounds like a great deal!
I didn't hear any bad answers on education, but some were better than others. Most important common theme: Gut or eliminate the Department of Education (which Newt proposed back in 1994 and was part of the now-forgotten Contract with America).
This should be good. Conservatives vs. conservatives on E-Verify.
Answer: yes. Use e-verify.
Andrew, what does it say about the race that I can't stand our two "frontrunners" right now? Or maybe it's just me. I'll tell you one thing, I have never been on Cain's bandwagon before, BUT...
This illegal alien college discount ticks me off.
Newt asked exactly the right rhetorical question: "What is is that small business owners find so onerous about E-Verify?"
Oof. Romney is presenting himself as more conservative than Perry. He's got a shorter life expectancy than the Ole Miss football coach right now.
T-Rav, I'm still thinking how great it would be if Paul Ryan had run?
Maybe he'll consider if if Perry quits?
T-Rav, I think it's going to play very well for Romney. Most people don't look up their views, they just go with what they see.
Perry is now going to have to defend his in-state tuition for illegals.
Perry is now going to have to defend his in-state tuition for illegals.
On the one hand, Perry has a point. On the other hand, I hate his point.
Perry went on about border security, but if they sneak through, well, what the hell.
Ignore that tuition thing. I am totally against illegal immigration. And Mitt Romney sucks.
Andrew, stop making me fantasize. :-)
I think Santorum's going too far, but at least he's not talking about Gardasil.
I swear, Perry looks like he's been drugged.
Santorum paints Perry as to the left of Obama on Mexican-American cooperation on educating illegals.
Dude, this smackdown ain't got nothin' on us.
Perry responds to Santorum and proves that Santorum was correct.
This is a trick question:
"Mr. Paul, will you please say something crazy."
GOLD!!!! And the FED!!!
Ignore Ron Paul... and don't try to move to Mexico.
In defense of Paul: I know a bunch of people who have retired to Mexican resort towns. Not in droves but hey...
With the exception of Cain, I don't like the candidates.
And Paul goes off on the danger of E-Verify becoming a national ID card. What does he think a Social Security card is? We've been stuck with that for decades.
Michelle Malkin on Twitter: You know. Now would be a good time to talk about Operation Fast and Furious.
Something you learn as a litigator is don't use ANY complicated charts, don't try to use more than 1 or 2 charts, and don't try to make your point with charts -- you will lose people.
Oh, and a Social Security card by itself doesn't establish that the person carrying it is the person it was issued to, while E-Verify would get very close to doing exactly that.
CrisD, He does have a point. In fact, he's got some very good point that this will all become another form of control over the public.
Joel, I'm really starting to question why our "bottom tier" of candidates is, in fact, bottom tier. I think Romney and Perry have both fallen in love with being the frontrunners, and it shows.
Hey GE... how many jobs did you send to China today?
T-Rav,
I predict that conservative backers will switch to Cain if he gets close tonight. I love that he wants to do away with EPA.
We don't need to ridicule some of the candidates on the stage, they're doing that all by themselves.
Andrew and Cris: All good conservatives are historically and genetically wary of anything that sounds like "papers, please." But never before have we had such a huge influx of immigrants who are hostile to American ideals, irredentist, and ready to live off the fat of the land.
Andrew, isn't that an altered Vietnam War line? I knew you were a pinko at heart!
Strangely, the word cloud on Goggle that came up in foreign policy was "Amy Winehouse"
Crap...Romney's going to get a lot of traction with this. And you know what? He should.
T-Rav, Yep, I protested the Vietnam War. Hey hey, LBJ, how many donuts did I eat today!
Lawhawk, I agree. I think we do need the e-verify thing, absolutely. But there need to be safeguards to stop the feds from using it against us.
God, please don't ask Ron Paul this question, please don't ask Ron Paul this question, please oh please oh please...
WHY IS THIS MAN NOT PRESIDENT?
Cain gave a good, moral and patriotic answer to the question about supporting Israel, but it didn't actually answer the main query: What would you do to keep Iran from going nuclear and protect Israel?
Hey Bret, that's my talking point, not yours!
Fox has been agitating for war with Pakistan all day.
Okay, this is a good point from Perry: We desperately need to shore up our alliances with India and other Asian countries.
It shoold be noted that the Zionists caused all evil things in the world and we Amereekans shoold let Iran have divine atomic bomb.
Andrew, in Fox's defense, Pakistan has been kinda asking for it.
LawHawk-what really good answer is there for the Arabs trying to blow up Isreal? Its a bad scene!
Perry gave a good answer to "what would you do if you got the 3 AM phone call that Pakistan had lost control if its nuclear arsenal to extremists." Rather than something like "nuke 'em," he said we have to undo the mistakes we've made by not standing strongly with India, including refusing to sell them fighters and bombers that are sufficiently state-of-the-art to counter Pakistani militarism.
Obama's decision not to sell new F-16s to Taiwan is already causing problems with China.
God I LOVE Americans!!!!!
Hey A-Jad, come over here a minute and say that. We're toughened up from months of combat with T-Rav and we want to teach you a thing or two...
Gotta bow out for awhile. I'm herding six rambunctious grandkids tonight, and they need a good beating. I'll rejoin you later.
T-Rav, True. But frankly, going to war with Pakistan is not a great idea. Let's fund India and let them invade.
Gingrich is right!
43% reduction in military spending?
Mr. Johnson... here's the door buddy. See ya.
Andrew, it absolutely is. Things are already heating up between China and The Philippines over South China Sea resources. But hey, it's wrong to be warmongering through proxies overseas or something, so whatever.
Oh yeah, Bachmann is here too....
Fox is doing a horrible job getting everyone involved.
And...that's why I was holding off on Johnson.
I don't think our economy is sick... it's being molested by the Feds.
Wasn't there a band named B-16's or something like that? Maybe Huntsman and/or Johnson could ship them overseas and that would work as well.
B-52s....
And on that note, REM broke up. That's kind of sad. It's not relevant, but it's sad.
Thank you Bachmann for pointing out the lie behind "separation of church and state." I am so tired of that.
Just say it Rick, you know you want to...
So Rick will reinstate DADT unless you are already in the military.
That makes NO sense.
Oh, everyone down South here is just WRECKED about REMs breaking up. They were from Athens, GA, which is the UGA campus, so there's that whole SEC camaraderie thing going on. I haven't listened to them much, but I get how important they are for the music scene, or at least were, and...oh, wait, is this debate still on?
Geez, is this nightmare over yet? I should have upped my meds more...
T-Rav, Yeah, there's a debate. Though I have to say that Perry is losing me tonight... not a very exciting speaker.
The word cloud on ObamaCare says:
"#$@%$#%"
Candidates, the Dow has crashed dramatically over the past two weeks and is indicating a possible double-dip recession. What do you think of this spatial arrangement of Google terms?
Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!!
Oh, did I say that out loud?
Ooh, this is good. You can bash ObamaCare impartially, but doing it as someone whose life was saved by the free-market system is so much better.
Andrew, let me just add:
Go Herm!!
Oh, so that's why Michigan is a blue state so often. It's full of crybabies like this guy.
I'm going to expand Obamacare.
This was a gotcha question -- either you support socialism or I shoot this whiner.
Neither of those is a valid answer.
STOP WITH THE VACCINE QUESTIONS!!!!
Oh Lord. Gardasil. Here we go...
Oh oh... she is on dangerous ground having had this blow up on her last week.
Here we go...gardisil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I hear "12-year-old little girls" one more time, I may turn around and punch this wall.
Now he's blaming the idiots who don't understand opt-out?
Bad answer.
Oh, the heck they do! No freaking way they treat Texas the same as everyone else!
We use to love you T-Rav, we thought you were cool. But now you scare us.
......I can't stand how arrogant Romney gets sometimes. He thinks he's SO cool, because he's such a good debater, and...sorry, I'm really going off the rails here.
Romney/Cain 2012
Perry really is having a bad night. He's coming across as whiny and sleepy now and he's tripping all over his arguments.
12-year-old little girls: Welcome to our world.
Perry is completely losing it. He's babbling. By the time he gets to the end of a sentence, he's forgotten what he was saying at the beginning.
OK, back to the grandkids.
Perry's done. He looks intimidated.
Andrew, ain't that the truth. His "Romney was for the Second Amendment before he was against it" line could have been devastating, but he kept tripping over his tongue and going slowly. His post-debate numbers are not going to look good.
Yes, pass the American Jobs Act -- from Rep. Gohmert!
Things may be shaking out!
"Romney/Cain 2012"
Andrew, that is the only thing that could make me feel good about voting for Mitt right now.
T-Rav, Honestly, I suspect this is one of those moments like Nixon sweating. Perry just looks intimidated, confused and defenseless. That's REALLY hard to come back from.
Is it over? I thought it was more important to have some good Tex-Mex than watch the debates...so sue me. And have the kittens now formed a dangerous gang that we should be concerned about?
I liked the commercial. Vote for Obama's American Hand-Job Act (or something like that). We should pass it right away.
Shut up, kids. I'll feed you in a minute! Stop whining!
CrisD, I agree. I think tonight is huge/devastating for several of these people.
Bev, They're still talking. Your governor seems to have fallen asleep though.
Lawhawk, That's the San Francisco version.
Why do we care what liberals are saying at a Fox News debate (and that includes Bloomberg)?
I would drop three things on the doorstep of Congress too, but then the cops would be after me.
Bev, I'll give you their cell and fax number after I'm finished with target practice.
Ahhhh Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!! Go Herm!!
Employers aren't hiring because they hate poor people and they want Obama to fail!!!
So we made a mistake last time...we went for McCain when we should have gone for must plain Cain. Am I right?
T-Rav will hate this, but I'm impressed by Perry tonight.
Come on, Grandpa! We don't care about your stupid debate, we want some "Delta Smelt Delight!"
The fed is under my bed!!
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